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The status of the Self language

blog.selflanguage.org

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Re: The status of the Self language

#2

Post by loewenskind »

This is fantastic news. I'm really happy to see Self get picked up again. It was a breeding ground for a lot of great performance improvements we enjoy today. It will also be good to do some proper exploration of proper prototype based development.

Re: The status of the Self language

#3

Post by ekidd »

In every argument about dynamic language performance for the last 15 years, Self has been the final word: "If Self can reach 1/4 to 1/2 the speed of native C code, why can't JavaScript? Why can't Ruby?" Well, JavaScript and Lua are slowly getting there, and Ruby might in a few more years. Even if Self could only reach that level of performance occasionally, it has been an inspiration to many others.

It's great to hear that an old and storied project has been released as open source. The best of luck to them, and I look forward to reading their compiler source code some day!

Re: The status of the Self language

#4

Post by chrisbroadfoot »

ekidd wrote: post #3

In every argument about dynamic language performance for the last 15 years, Self has been the final word: "If Self can reach 1/4 to 1/2 the speed of native C code, why can't JavaScript? Why can't Ruby?" Well, JavaScript and Lua are slowly getting there, and Ruby might in a few more years. Even if Self could only reach that level of performance occasionally, it has been an inspiration to many others. It's great to hea…

I'm actually surprised JS has made it this far. I'm not convinced it will go much further, though.

Can someone convince me, please? :)

Re: The status of the Self language

#5

Post by smackay »

The article mentions the lingering fear of Smalltalk images but virtual machine images offering hope for the future. I experienced this with Smalltalk (Gemstone) apps quite some time ago and that feeling remained with Java on the desktop. What would it take to get non-native environments to integrate better and so gain better acceptance with end-users? Is the browser a better vector since end-users are more accepting of different web site styles rather than desktop app look and feels?

Re: The status of the Self language

#6

Post by apl »

chrisbroadfoot wrote: post #4
ekidd wrote: post #3

In every argument about dynamic language performance for the last 15 years, Self has been the final word: "If Self can reach 1/4 to 1/2 the speed of native C code, why can't JavaScript? Why can't Ruby?" Well, JavaScript and Lua are slowly getting there, and Ruby might in a few more years. Even if Self could only reach that level of performance occasionally, it has been an inspiration to many others. It's great to hea…

I'm actually surprised JS has made it this far. I'm not convinced it will go much further, though. Can someone convince me, please? :)

I'll try.

At some point in the past, you predicted (possibly implicitly, given that we're dealing with "surprise") that JS wouldn't reach the performance it has today. But it evidently did. So you're not very good at predicting the development JavaScript's performance profile. Currently you believe it can't go much further. Hence, given the historical precedent that we have, it probably will.

There you go.

Re: The status of the Self language

#7

Post by epo »

apl wrote: post #6
chrisbroadfoot wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually surprised JS has made it this far. I'm not convinced it will go much further, though. Can someone convince me, please? :)

I'll try. At some point in the past, you predicted (possibly implicitly, given that we're dealing with "surprise") that JS wouldn't reach the performance it has today. But it evidently did. So you're not very good at predicting the development JavaScript's performance profile. Currently you believe it can't go much further. Hence, given the historical precedent that we have, it probably will. There you go.

What makes you think he was talking about Javascript's performance?

Re: The status of the Self language

#8

Post by apl »

epo wrote: post #7
apl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try. At some point in the past, you predicted (possibly implicitly, given that we're dealing with "surprise") that JS wouldn't reach the performance it has today. But it evidently did. So you're not very good at predicting the development JavaScript's performance profile. Currently you believe it can't go much further. Hence, given the historical precedent that we have, it probably will. There you go.

What makes you think he was talking about Javascript's performance?

Context? Besides, my argument doesn't really depend on whether you put "performance" or "popularity." Also, I was joking.

Re: The status of the Self language

#9

Post by sb »

To get a feeling for the Self language and what was (is) possible, you should (if you can, of course) take the time to watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ka4KY7TMTU

It contains a few gems, and is really worthwhile watching. (Disclaimer, I think Dave Ungar has done tremendous things for PLDI; interested people should definitely check out his UC-Berkeley PhD thesis of 1986, easily one of the best I have ever seen...)

Re: The status of the Self language

#10

Post by aubonpanzer »

sb wrote: post #9

To get a feeling for the Self language and what was (is) possible, you should (if you can, of course) take the time to watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ka4KY7TMTU It contains a few gems, and is really worthwhile watching. (Disclaimer, I think Dave Ungar has done tremendous things for PLDI; interested people should definitely check out his UC-Berkeley PhD thesis of 1986, easily one of the best I have e…

Thanks for the recommendation. PhD Dissertation Linked: http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/1986/CSD-86-287.p...
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