The Streets Were Never Free. Congestion Pricing Finally Makes That Plain

Post by qmanjamz » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

a_c_s wrote: post #167

dcosson wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever order something online or get food delivery or take a taxi or uber you do use the roads, and the number of people who do those things somewhat regularly is a lot closer to 100%. But you might still be using the roads a lot less than someone who drives to and from work every day. So some combination of tax money and tolls/congestion pricing seems to make the most sense from this usage based angle.

In NYC (at least in Manhattan where congestion pricing is being implemented) food delivery is primarily done via bicycle, sometimes via subway or walking, very rarely by vehicle.

Post by closeparen » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

Jorge1o1 wrote: post #31

The streets were never free. We paid for it with our tax money. (Not to mention our 22 trillion dollar public debt) I don’t think people expect streets to be free in the same way you don’t expect the police department to be free, the fire department to be free, public schools, etc. In any case, my point is, we paid for the streets with our tax money and our debt, so don’t masquerade this as some kind of “economic rec…

> don’t masquerade this as some kind of “economic reckoning” In New York, low-income New Yorkers who own a car (or live in the zone) will be eligible for a waiver [1]. People with disabilities, too, will probably be eligible for a waiver. (Some carve-outs are still being pinned down.) Taxis, Ubers, trucks and cars owned by people who opt to pay hundreds of dollars a month in parking are who will be taxed. Given the u…

Post by adrianmonk » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

seattle_spring wrote: post #215

Jorge1o1 wrote: post #31

The streets were never free. We paid for it with our tax money. (Not to mention our 22 trillion dollar public debt) I don’t think people expect streets to be free in the same way you don’t expect the police department to be free, the fire department to be free, public schools, etc. In any case, my point is, we paid for the streets with our tax money and our debt, so don’t masquerade this as some kind of “economic rec…

> We paid for it with our tax money. I hate this argument so much. It comes up all of the time when chronically underfunded national and state parks say they need to raise prices. "buT muH taX doLLarS alReaDy PaY for MAH PARKS!!" Doubly true for places that add quotas and lotteries to curb overcrowding delicate areas. This is the exact same situation: Your tax dollars paid for part of it, sure, but not close to enoug…

Post by jimmaswell » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 7:02 PM UTC

francisofascii wrote: post #255

jimmaswell wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shame me all you want, I'm not biking my commute in 90/20 degree weather with a backpack full of stuff including a laptop and no reasonable way to listen to music when I have such a comfortable SUV-type car.

Buses work well for hot days, and you can actually use your laptop rather than driving. Buses should have dedicated lanes and arrival times every 5 minutes.

Post by kadendogthing » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #274

kadendogthing wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Parking and road access isn't about individuals, it's about making an entire metropolitan area functional. You don't need cars for a metro to be functional. This is purely a 1st world construct that we've burdened ourselves with. It can and should be undone. >where do they get their groceries and other goods? From stores in the neighborhood. There is typically truck access and back alley ways for things to get unloa…

They money freed up by not having a car is promptly swallowed up by contending for a smaller pool of usable land.