Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#111

Post by Klathmon » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:36 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #92

Klathmon wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why i'm jumping into this thread, but 50% cheaper!? You want a brand new electric car for $17.5k USD? Even the cheapest ICE cars sold in the US have trouble hitting that number... That just seems like a completely unreasonably high bar to hold EVs to at this point since things like batteries are so much more expensive than an ICE engine.

A quick search on cars.com reveals 1,700 new cars within 50 miles of my zip code for under $15,000. I agree that a decent EV for that price is just not practical yet, but cheap ICE cars have no trouble hitting it.

That's fair I guess, I did a cursory search and saw things from Toyota and Nissan in the $16-18k range, and I didn't really search more.

But I was also expecting to compare MSRP, but I now realize that it's not really a good comparison since Teslas are bought less like cars (with haggling and discounts) and more like a new phone (you pay the price they set). Still, I'm floored that ICE cars are that cheap!

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#112

Post by bksenior » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #101

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology. However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on. I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Somethi…

You think thats bad. Tesla is about to have to head to head with all the majors who are now starting to finally harvest about a decade of their own research in the space (prompted by Teslas early success).

Musks ambitions and outbursts strike me as a man who suffers from the top killer of successful entrepreneurs, The skill/talent portability fallacy. It's this idea because you did something similar well, that your ability should port to "things like it." Seems like Tesla is going to extend itself to death.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#113

Post by softwaredoug » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:38 PM UTC

thebeefytaco wrote: post #105

yumraj wrote: post #101

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology. However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on. I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Somethi…

Didn't Tesla already open source all their patents?

There’s a big difference between a patent and a working product

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#114

Post by webXL » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #101

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology. However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on. I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Somethi…

> to the various car manufacturers

Or to Apple/Google. While I'm a big fan, I fail to see how they become a dominant player in the industry, especially when most of their much larger competitors have committed to producing similar cars. Transportation as a service seems like it has more room for growth.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#115

Post by leesec » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

gre wrote: post #108

leesec wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made my head hurt so bad. You pay for software all the time?

Sure, it just feels wrong in this case. Who wants a Tesla without autopilot? If they're trying to sell as many as possible, give the software away for free.

Now that you mention it, if they're trying to sell as many as possible, why not just give away the car for free? People love free cars.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#116

Post by Klathmon » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #101

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology. However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on. I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Somethi…

I don't think so. Tesla is like Apple in a way. They are both the "Brand name" and the "technology" all in one package, and splitting the 2 would lead to each one being significantly less than half their total.

Personally I think what would be best for Tesla (in a vacuum) is if they stopped trying to grow so quickly, and grew much like the other car manufacturers did, over a longer period of time, so that missteps and mistakes are speed bumps rather than mountains to get over.

Sadly I also think they can't afford to slow down, because if they do I really think the other larger car companies will eat their lunch.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#117

Post by JshWright » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

jtx22 wrote: post #80

BaconJuice wrote: post #57

is now a good time to buy? [serious]

If you believe solar and electric cars are the future, its a good time to buy.

There are _way_ more factors than that. Not the least of which being "do you believe Tesla is the company that is able to deliver those effectively?". All signs currently point to "No".

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#118

Post by bdcravens » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

gre wrote: post #108

leesec wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made my head hurt so bad. You pay for software all the time?

Sure, it just feels wrong in this case. Who wants a Tesla without autopilot? If they're trying to sell as many as possible, give the software away for free.

> Who wants a Tesla without autopilot?

Those who don't want to be killed or injured when the autopilot steers into a wall or oncoming traffic?

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#119

Post by leesec » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:43 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #64

Interesting tweet shows lots of Tesla's sitting in inventory after being rejected by customers or other problems. https://twitter.com/Latrilife/status/1113799586567426049

Even worse, I was driving around the other day and saw entire parking lots full of inventory at this weird thing called a dealership, maybe GM and Ford are going under since they have all this inventory sitting there?

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#120

Post by brohee » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:45 PM UTC

jtx22 wrote: post #80

BaconJuice wrote: post #57

is now a good time to buy? [serious]

If you believe solar and electric cars are the future, its a good time to buy.

You can totally believe that, and have no faith in Tesla itself. On the high end side I don't see how they will counter the like of Audi, Jaguar, Porsche and Polestar, which come with actually well made cars, a service network that works and actual prestige. On the low end Korean and Chinese brands should slash prices...