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Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

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Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#101

Post by yumraj »

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology.

However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on.

I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Something akin to Intel and computers, so that you can buy a car with Tesla inside. That will allow Tesla to focus on it's core strength and innovate while leaving the car manufacturing, QA, sales, support and such to traditional car companies.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#102

Post by neogodless »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #91
everdev wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love a Tesla if they were 50% cheaper. I used to think that the big car companies weren't able to bring a competitive EV to market because they were bigger than Tesla and bogged down in layers of management. Now I'm wondering if Tesla was just over marketed and overly ambitious entering the market and if these later entry EVs from main stream car companies in the next few years will be just as good at a fract…

I mean no luxury brand sells a car for $17.5k. I'm sure the entire world would go bananas if the Model 3 were priced at that... Chevy has the Bolt out now at the same price as the SR+ Model 3, and it's absurd how bad the Bolt looks in comparison. The range is the same, but the exterior, performance, and charging capabilities are dramatically inferior to Model 3. The only other competition debuting in the near future…

I think the correct comparison would be Average Selling Price (ASP), which for a Model 3 is nearly $60k USD. So I think when someone suggests a 50% price reduction, they are saying they'd love to buy a Tesla that is real-world, no tax credits necessary, breaking the $30k barrier.

The most expensive Toyota Camry barely tops $30k[0], and the vast majority sells for less. So ultimately, mainstream electric cars will have to compete in this space (and probably without tax credits, unfortunately.)

I only have one anecdote - my co-worker bought a Model 3, and it was over $60k. That's a luxury! I'm a reasonably well-paid software guy, but I've never spent more than $29k on a car. Currently I drive a hatchback that I bought nearly new for under $20k. So I'm stuck looking at the Nissan Leaf as my option for an electric car, and it would probably work if I kicked my wife out of the garage and installed a charger there. But I'm hesitant to go from a Mazda 3 to a Leaf.

[0] https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2019-Toyota-Camry-Price-c27940

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#103

Post by mikeash »

justtopost wrote: post #100
mikeash wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like that entire account is dedicated to attacking Tesla. Can we believe it?

As opposed to the hundreds astroturfing and greenwahing them? In a war of ideas, give everyone ammo. The truth is never exclusive to one view.

That doesn’t answer my question at all.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#104

Post by fetus8 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #63
baby wrote: post #54

These kind of posts are good publicity right? I don't see any other car company we follow so closely on the market. Tesla is the only name I can see come up again and again here, and guess what, most people on HN are the actual population that is buying teslas.

> most people on HN are the actual population that is buying teslas You overestimate how many people here are willing to shell out those amounts of money for vehicle, and how practical it actually is. Yes, it is a future and whatnot and a lot of cool tech. But for say 20k euro I can have 5 year old BMW 3-er wagon. Yes, not new car, but I get 95% of the car for 1/3-1/4 of the cost. Much better fun to drive (I care muc…

I think you're underestimating how much people are willing to spend on an EV, especially a Tesla. I work in Boulder, and Teslas are literally every where. When the Model 3 deliveries started happening, our parking lot at work was invaded with the navy blue models.

EVs have become quite commonplace all over the Front Range of CO, even in the less rich places. Teslas, Bolts, Volts, etrons, and Electric Fords are really common here. I don't think this is exclusive to this area, as I was just in LA, and they're everywhere there too.

Whether it's the urge to help reduce carbon emissions, or have the newest coolest thing, people are willing to shell out those amounts for a vehicle, regardless of how practical it is.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#105

Post by thebeefytaco »

yumraj wrote: post #101

I think it's more or less generally agreed that Tesla has the best in class battery, charger and perhaps drive train, including motors, technology. However, they have a single car plant and struggle with production and quality, after sales support and so on. I wonder, as a thought experiment, if Tesla would be more successful if they become the OEM, providing their technology to the various car manufacturers. Somethi…

Didn't Tesla already open source all their patents?

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#106

Post by 0_gravitas »

justtopost wrote: post #100
mikeash wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like that entire account is dedicated to attacking Tesla. Can we believe it?

As opposed to the hundreds astroturfing and greenwahing them? In a war of ideas, give everyone ammo. The truth is never exclusive to one view.

Exceptional non-answer

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#108

Post by gre »

leesec wrote: post #82
gre wrote: post #79

It feels wrong that they charge for autopilot when it's just software--they should give it away for free. This really affects how I feel about buying a Tesla when it's in the cart. I wonder if sales would go up if they just gave it away for free, and if the economics still work out.

This comment made my head hurt so bad. You pay for software all the time?

Sure, it just feels wrong in this case. Who wants a Tesla without autopilot? If they're trying to sell as many as possible, give the software away for free.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#109

Post by karpodiem »

sjwright wrote: post #67
karpodiem wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read HN, drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee, and short Tesla.

You’re being sarcastic, right? What is the signal you’re trying to send by admitting to choosing one of the most unreliable car brands on the market?

I live in Detroit and buy a vehicle that's produced at Jefferson and Connor, five miles from where I live. I feel good about that.

The 3.6L V6 / and ZF eight speed transmission are battle tested - we're five years into the current Grand Cherokee iteration, they've mostly worked out the issues. The volume of TSBs (technical service bulletins - http://wk2jeeps.com/wk2_tsb.htm) are way lower vs. the launch model year.

I haven't had any quality issues, although it's early. I would never buy the first (and maybe even second) model year for any OEM, but especially FCA - that part I would agree with. Wait until year three.

Re: Tesla’s First-Quarter Deliveries Plummet

#110

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

mikeash wrote: post #88
refurb wrote: post #64

Interesting tweet shows lots of Tesla's sitting in inventory after being rejected by customers or other problems. https://twitter.com/Latrilife/status/1113799586567426049

Looks like that entire account is dedicated to attacking Tesla. Can we believe it?

Should it matter? You can analyze this disparate piece of evidence independently of the agenda. In fact, you might even say that by putting the cards on the table, at least this source is transparent about which stance of the topic it is taking, giving you opportunity to take care when evaluating single pieces of evidence.. this is possibly better than sources which purport to be fair and balanced and go to greater lengths to obfuscate ways they are tacitly pushing an agenda.

I don’t agree with the concept of forming a high-level conclusion about the general nature of a source of information, and then using that to argue that you should not separately carefully analyze disparate pieces of content from that source.

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