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Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

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Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#21
post #7
post #3

I'm not familiar with Amazon's content policies, but I couldn't see Amazon wanting this stuff hosted on their servers.

It would depend on how Wikileaks designed their AWS infrastructure. Amazon's policies are specific to the territory in which they operate. They obey the local laws for the data they will store on their hardware and will only comply with local laws. For example, if you provision your services in the EU-Ireland region, it is governed by the laws of the EU, not by the United States. That being said, I don't know the spe…

> the laws of the EU

We are, sadly, not quite that far along yet.

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#22
post #2

Moving to an elastic infrastructure in the face of an attack that aims to increase usage, seems like a recipe for a huge bill.. The wikileaks guys are obviously uber smart and have thought through the pros and cons of the move, but it seems an unusual choice..

A competent hosting company - with a sufficiently fat upstream pipe - should be able to handle it. Amazon has the scale to absorb this attack.

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#23
post #7
post #3

I'm not familiar with Amazon's content policies, but I couldn't see Amazon wanting this stuff hosted on their servers.

It would depend on how Wikileaks designed their AWS infrastructure. Amazon's policies are specific to the territory in which they operate. They obey the local laws for the data they will store on their hardware and will only comply with local laws. For example, if you provision your services in the EU-Ireland region, it is governed by the laws of the EU, not by the United States. That being said, I don't know the spe…

Technically you are goverened by the law of Ireland, not the EU (per se).

However someone else pointed out they are hosted in us-west

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#24
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overheated rhetoric spewing from some politicians notwithstanding, I can hope that no court of law will be persuaded that there can be a terrorist organization without weapons, indeed without violence of any kind. (Even if Assange has committed some violent crime on his own -- and I am not saying he has -- this is clearly not the purpose of the organization.)

Does the government still need to go through courts when dealing with "terrorists"?

There is actually a bit of judicial review in the case of designating terrorist organizations, though I don't know how thorough. Here's Wikipedia on how terrorist organizations get designated, and how they can challenge it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._State_Department_list_of_F...

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#25

I am curious who wants to attack Wikileaks and for what purpose. I think it's unlikely this is the USG because of the sheer pointlessness of it, plus the fallout that would occur if it were discovered. The likeliest major player I can think of is China, but I'm not sure I have a reason for that belief other than that they are the bogeyman du jour. An alternate possibility is that this is just some cracker flexing his…

Shear pointlessness has not been preventing thr USG from doing much of anything in the past decade or so.

Or did you miss the past few years of security theatre and unwinnable wars?

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#26

I am curious who wants to attack Wikileaks and for what purpose. I think it's unlikely this is the USG because of the sheer pointlessness of it, plus the fallout that would occur if it were discovered. The likeliest major player I can think of is China, but I'm not sure I have a reason for that belief other than that they are the bogeyman du jour. An alternate possibility is that this is just some cracker flexing his…

Shear pointlessness has not been preventing thr USG from doing much of anything in the past decade or so. Or did you miss the past few years of security theatre and unwinnable wars?

Are you actually trying to argue with me, or just taking a potshot at the USG? If the latter, please use someone else's comment as a platform and not mine. If the former . . .

Sheer pointlessness is meant to encompass several reasons I believe the USG is an unlikely culprit.

First, there's the risk of significant consequences if the USG's involvement comes to public light. There's another election in two years, so even the PR damage could cost them. Then there's the matter of this kind of action being illegal. Maybe no prosecution would occur, but maybe it would.

Second, unlike your security theater example, there is literally zero chance of this doing any good for anyone. Every person who is even the least bit interested could obtain the documents with only minor effort considering how widely they have been distributed. Major news organizations have already collated them for the masses.

On the other hand, "security theater" and "unwinnable wars" are only pointless in a debatable sense. There are obviously a large number of people who believe that airport security measures are having some positive effect. Similarly, by some metrics (not mine), the war in Iraq has been successful and the war in Afghanistan is heading in that direction too. I don't doubt in hindsight that they will prove to be mistakes, but that is not the same as their having a absolutely known "pointlessness" value now. So I think that objection of yours is incorrect as well.

Also, you've only pointed out two pointless things the USG has done in the past decade. That's not the same as proving that the USG is equally inclined to do pointless things as pointful ones. In fact, it may be that the USG discards pointless courses of action at a much higher rate than pointful ones, but that certain pointless actions have been enacted nonetheless. In this case, it would still be predictive of the US not being involved that the Wikileaks DOS is pointless.

Finally, I'm not aware that it is the USG's standard infosec policy to maintain batteries of compromised civilian computers with which to perform cyber warfare. Perhaps it is, but that would be quite a discovery in and of itself.

So, there are a lot of problems with your line of reasoning. I could be wrong, but I think the odds are something like 80-20 that I am right and this is not the USG's doing.

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#27

Why don't they invest some of the donation money in P2P DNS and start hosting the site as torrent ? Many people would be happy to seed.

Because Bittorrent-powered P2P DNS is a weird buzzword, not yet really existing piece of technology. And, I'd guess, WikiLeaks probably want to publish (primarily) on the mass-accessible Internet, not at some obscure place where nobody except for crypto-geeks could access it. They could try popularizing Freenet (which is already existing and is a fairly stable technology), but, again, I'd guess they probably have the…

If they used Freenet I can imagine the mainstream media going straight for the fact that Freenet is full of child porn. I don't think they need any more of that kind of publicity.

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#28
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would depend on how Wikileaks designed their AWS infrastructure. Amazon's policies are specific to the territory in which they operate. They obey the local laws for the data they will store on their hardware and will only comply with local laws. For example, if you provision your services in the EU-Ireland region, it is governed by the laws of the EU, not by the United States. That being said, I don't know the spe…

> the laws of the EU We are, sadly, not quite that far along yet.

Sadly? The things that come out of the EU are at least as stupid as local laws, especially wrt technology.

Re: Wikileaks moves to Amazon's cloud to evade massive DDoS

#30
Unfortunately, once the big guns of the media and those opportunists in government find out, Amazon will be forced to make a statement one way or another. Do they support this kind of thing or not? I can even imagine calls for a boycott from some sectors - not a great thing for Amazon at this time of year.
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