When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too • Hacker News Board

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#221

Post by maldusiecle » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

Do ebooks cost a similar amount to print books? If you limit what you're buying to recent bestsellers and the like, sure. But many ebook sellers, including Amazon, routinely have massive sales. I've bought ebooks for $2 or $3 apiece. I don't see similar discounting for physical books unless they're secondhand and well-worn--and usually even in that case the price doesn't go so low.

I use ebooks for books I think it's less likely that I'll reread, when I can get a bargain.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#222

Post by gpm » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

BeetleB wrote: post #219

gpm wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You buy a book from me. One day I decide I want to reverse that transaction so I walk up to you, rip the book out of your hands, and drop some money. I just committed theft and should go to jail. Once you sell something you don't have the right to take it back if you later regret the transaction.

>Once you sell something you don't have the right to take it back if you later regret the transaction. Microsoft did not sell the books (or their content), though.

So says the terms of service (that no one reads).

How many people who bought those books do you think understood they were buying a revocable license that gave microsoft the right to remotely delete them from their devices?

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#223

Post by wlll » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

maldusiecle wrote: post #221

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

Do ebooks cost a similar amount to print books? If you limit what you're buying to recent bestsellers and the like, sure. But many ebook sellers, including Amazon, routinely have massive sales. I've bought ebooks for $2 or $3 apiece. I don't see similar discounting for physical books unless they're secondhand and well-worn--and usually even in that case the price doesn't go so low. I use ebooks for books I think it's…

It depends on the book. A few months ago I bought "Kitcen Confidential (Anthony Bourdain). Back then ISTR the ebook was similarly priced. Now it's way cheaper.

I can go on Amazon and find ebooks that are cheaper, the same price, and more expensive than the print versions.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#224

Post by jamesgeck0 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

bo1024 wrote: post #162

teh_klev wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I add Tor (publisher of SciFi, Fantasy etc) who also sell most of their eBooks DRM free.

One thing I got confused about was where they actually sell these DRM-free ebooks. (Apparently not on their website.) I went out on a limb and bought some Tor books from ebooks.com and they did turn out to be DRM-free, but there was no way to tell in advance.

Tor's Kindle books are also DRM free, although IIRC the process of exporting the DRM free files outside the Kindle app is somewhat non-intuitive.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#225

Post by amerkhalid » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

I love my Kindle but because of similar reasons I am usually reluctant to buy any book on it. In my mind, whenever I buy a book for Kindle I assume it is long term rental and one day it would go away.

The things I like about Kindle are:

1. Reading at night. This is number one reason for me. With Popsocket on back, I can hold Kindle for hours in bed. Without Popsocket, it is awkward to hold while laying down.

2. Waterproof. You can read paper books in hot tub or pool too, so this is not that important.

3. Personal Documents. You can send pretty much any text/blog post to your Kindle via browser plugin. A lot of reading I do at night is blog posts.

4. Text to Speech. When I really want to be lazy, this is great then.

A few years ago when my Kindle Keyboard died, I tried going back to paper books 100% but I didn't read as much as I was reading on Kindle. So I am back on Kindle with the assumption that I will lose all my books sooner or later.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#226

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

gigabates wrote: post #129

This article is pretty ironic given this is exactly what the BBC did when they shut down BBC Store.

[deleted]

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#227

Post by Finnucane » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #211

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

I never understood the argument that ebooks should cost less. The price of a good usually isn't determined by the cost to manufacture and sell. Why should books be different? For me, I'll pay more for an ebook than a paperback because it's a more valuable format for me. Aside from being more compact and searchable, I can select a larger font. If it's more valuable, why shouldn't it cost more? One thing we do agree on…

Typically, the price of books is largely a function of the costs of manufacture and distribution. There are some fixed, up-front costs that don't vary with print run (editorial, typesetting, proofreading, cropyediting and so on), which is why a bestseller novel is way more profitable than a complex academic book that is expensive to produce and limited in sales, even though you're probably spending more on royalties and marketing support for that.

For ebooks, you can reduce your distribution costs (there's some cost of creating the file and distributing it, but you don't have shipping costs or returns), but of course you still need to make back your fixed costs. I manage ebook production for a university publisher (but I have no say on pricing decisions, only the technical stuff), and for us, the savings for ebooks doesn't really translate into a big price difference, because our fixed costs are such a large part of our expenses. In our market, ebooks still don't amount to a big percentage of sales, because the reader technology doesn't provide enough support for complex books.

I do argue as much as I can against DRM, but so far I have lost that fight.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#228

Post by benj111 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #212

benj111 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I possess a dictionary too :P Independent suggests more than just being independent, and very little of that seems to be compatible with being an internet company (local, passionate knowledgeable owner, community hub).

I think I may have been wrong regarding independent. Given the context of the thread, it sounds more like platform-independent, rather than publisher-independent. The previous comments are about platform-specific stores.

Do you think I'm reading too much into the word then?

If some one told me about a small independent record store, or small independent coffee shop, I would have certain expectations.

Platform independent seems reasonable given the context though.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#229

Post by HappyJoy » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

(4) Is the reason I do buy ebooks sometimes. If I know I'll never read the book again (paperback sci-fi usually), I'm more than happy to trade rights for convenience.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#230

Post by andrewla » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 3:07 PM UTC

ihuman wrote: post #210

andrewla wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All your points are dead on. I'll throw in these cons as well: 5. visibility (as noted by angrygoat) and browseability is terrible. 6. Flipping through an ebook looking for something is impossible. 7. Illustrations or drawings are rendered terribly. The list of pros of ebooks: 1. It's just a better experience. Ebooks are lighter than their equivalent books, easy to use one-handed, fonts can be adjusted, you can carry…

> Flipping through an ebook looking for something is impossible If you're looking for something in an ebook, wouldn't it be easier and more effective to just search for it?

Much of the time, which is why I highlighted search. But especially for technical books, being able to put your finger in one place and flip back to where you are and glance back at where you are holding your finger is a physical metaphor that does not translate. Similarly for maps or lists.

"Wait, didn't that character die in the last chapter" is easily solved by flipping back a couple of chapters. If you search for the right thing you can find it too, but it's relatively painful for quick checks.