When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too • Hacker News Board

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#211

Post by criddell » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

I never understood the argument that ebooks should cost less. The price of a good usually isn't determined by the cost to manufacture and sell. Why should books be different?

For me, I'll pay more for an ebook than a paperback because it's a more valuable format for me. Aside from being more compact and searchable, I can select a larger font. If it's more valuable, why shouldn't it cost more?

One thing we do agree on though is that DRM on books should be banned. At the absolute minimum, it should have a failsafe built in so that users never lose their books and when copyright expires, all protection is removed.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#212

Post by oarsinsync » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #188

oarsinsync wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "We're a small independent ebook retailer" > How does that work? Small: They're not operating at Barnes & Noble, Waterstones, Amazon, or any other major book retailer level. Measuring by revenue seems reasonable in this sense. Pick arbitrary numbers to define small/medium/large. Independent: They're not affiliated with any one single publisher.

Yes, I possess a dictionary too :P Independent suggests more than just being independent, and very little of that seems to be compatible with being an internet company (local, passionate knowledgeable owner, community hub).

I think I may have been wrong regarding independent. Given the context of the thread, it sounds more like platform-independent, rather than publisher-independent. The previous comments are about platform-specific stores.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#213

Post by wlll » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

Myrmornis wrote: post #191

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

I have a large collection of technical books on my ipad. I can choose to read any one of them at any time in any place. I just need my ipad. This is both fun and educational. You appear to have completely missed the point of ebooks.

> You appear to have completely missed the point of ebooks.

And that point is?

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#214

Post by wlll » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:26 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #211

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

I never understood the argument that ebooks should cost less. The price of a good usually isn't determined by the cost to manufacture and sell. Why should books be different? For me, I'll pay more for an ebook than a paperback because it's a more valuable format for me. Aside from being more compact and searchable, I can select a larger font. If it's more valuable, why shouldn't it cost more? One thing we do agree on…

Good for you that you get more value out of them. I won't pay more though, because I personally have less rights and convenience with ebooks.

There's also an element of being taken for a ride here. I can afford the $8 snickers bar from the minibar in the hotel, but I won't buy it because I feel like someone is taking the piss. Attempting to use their position to extort me.

Same for ebooks. When your costs are lower, but you're charging more, I'm not going to buy the book because though I can afford the book I feel like I'm being somehow extorted.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#215

Post by bunderbunder » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #204

bunderbunder wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The objections that you give (1-4) are the ones that are fixable by hoisting the Jolly Roger. I think that that's solving the wrong problem. Just pirating ebooks that are offered under crappy Amazon and B&N style licensing agreements may get you a book that's more palatable to you, but it doesn't do anything to improve the ebook market itself. There are many, many publishers selling DRM-free ebooks out there, and m…

> but it doesn't do anything to improve the ebook market itself shrug I don't want to have to change the world first and then read the books I want to read. For the moment I'm willing to pay, but I'm inches away from opting out. I've even seriously considered building or purchasing a bulk book scanner and just ripping old mass market paperbacks for personal use. Or starting some sort of collective that does this. The…

> The signal that I want to send to Amazon... is that the prices are just too high. They could dramatically increase revenue simply by lowering the prices.

They might be too high for you, on the specific books you want to read. But cutting book prices to maximize book revenues is Amazon's first and oldest game, and I have a hard time believing that they suddenly became clueless about how to play it when they entered (created, really) the ebook market.

Offhand, I can think of two explanations for the price of Amazon ebooks that seem much more likely. I'm not sure if either are true, but I wouldn't be surprised both are:

First, it could be that they have agreements with publishers, who have an interest in keeping the price of Amazon (and Nook) ebooks relatively high in order help keep non-Amazon booksellers in business. They've seen what Wal-Mart does to suppliers, and naturally would want to guard against ending up in that situation.

Second, it could be that Amazon has figured out that they really do maximize Kindle revenues when they don't discount their ebooks very cheaply. That would be the case if Kindle readers generally buy what they want when they want to read it, regardless of a few bucks' difference in the book price. (It's not beyond the pale to think that might be true of people who, almost by definition, are willing to spend $1-200 on an e-reader.) Or, alternatively, they've found that they can price discriminate more effectively through their subscription service.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#216

Post by jetti » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

I have only really been buying books from Manning lately. When I do, I end up getting the physical copy + eBook combo. It costs a little more than if I were to just buy one of those items individually but what I have found is that I can offset the cost by selling the physical book if I don't like it or don't have a need for it anymore. The ability to do that helps offset the cost of both.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#217

Post by MrMember » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #42

hombre_fatal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they still get your money and you deal with the inconvenience? Try buying from https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebooks where possible (DRM-free).

There's actually quite a few eBook stores out there with DRM-free options, you just have to know where to look, and they're usually publisher-specific. Humble Bundle does a weekly Book Bundle. Wiley, O'Reilly, No Starch, and several other publishers all regularly participate with tech books, geek books, comic books, and manga. No Starch itself deserves a separate mention just because they're awesome. On their own sit…

Baen is also 100% DRM free. They're kind of a niche publisher but I've bought a few things from them.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#218

Post by andrepd » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

Correct your first sentence and I agree with everything you said.

I don't buy ebooks at amazon.

I have hundreds of books in my collection. You will never catch me buying a book with drm on it. Get drm-free ebooks from a store or from project Gutenberg-type places.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#219

Post by BeetleB » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

gpm wrote: post #189

nil-sec wrote: post #11

They refund them. Why is this an issue?

You buy a book from me. One day I decide I want to reverse that transaction so I walk up to you, rip the book out of your hands, and drop some money. I just committed theft and should go to jail. Once you sell something you don't have the right to take it back if you later regret the transaction.

>Once you sell something you don't have the right to take it back if you later regret the transaction.

Microsoft did not sell the books (or their content), though.

Re: When Microsoft's eBook store closes, your books disappear too

#220

Post by paulie_a » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #165

I don't buy ebooks, and this is just one reason. This is the complete list: 1. For some reason they cost a similar amount to print books Sometimes a bit less, sometimes the same, sometimes more. Distributing a physical book means you have to print, handle, store, transport, store again, handle again and transport again (using a simplified model of the journey a book takes to the end user). That costs money, and it co…

I like having a physical book, but the ebook is nice sometimes. I typically only buy the bundle now. Physical book + non DRM ebook. The last few times have been the same price. The ebook is more convenient sometimes.

If they don't include the ebook in a suitable format I'll just pirate it.