Live data from Hacker News

Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

businessinsider.com

61–70 of 140 posts

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#61
post #7

Social media ruined the internet forever, even less than a decade ago there were websites, forums of all sorts and for all kinds of interests, now the internet for most people is just these social websites/apps which intentionally lock users inside their services as long as possible to make more money from advertising and promoted posts. Unfortunately unless something big happens to fix this issue, the internet is lo…

I really miss forums. Google did a really good job of indexing forums, they where a great place to find honest reviews, share information etc. Now they are dying with users spread across various services which are not publicly indexed making it hard to find interesting information, that and forum posts look to be now down ranked in Google in favor retail sites. A few of the communities I am interested in such as outd…

I agree completely.

I used to be quite active in a guitar forum. It was almost like a family - complete with crazy fights and arguments too! I bought and sold several guitars, amps, pedals, etc too. Not cheap stuff either, I would send £500+ to a random stranger and trust them to send me the guitar. That was how well the community integrated. People built up real respect, and you could rely on the fact they didn't want to lose it. That forum (probably the biggest in the UK) doesn't exist anymore.

I wouldn't even dream of having a Facebook account, nevermind participating in a community on there to that degree. I wouldn't even send £1 to a random person on Facebook!

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#62
post #7

Social media ruined the internet forever, even less than a decade ago there were websites, forums of all sorts and for all kinds of interests, now the internet for most people is just these social websites/apps which intentionally lock users inside their services as long as possible to make more money from advertising and promoted posts. Unfortunately unless something big happens to fix this issue, the internet is lo…

It seems slightly ironic that most HNers are agreeing social media ruined the internet while doing so on a Reddit like social media platform. I'm an oddball that quite likes social media though I'll give you it has flaws.

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#63
post #14
post #7

Social media ruined the internet forever, even less than a decade ago there were websites, forums of all sorts and for all kinds of interests, now the internet for most people is just these social websites/apps which intentionally lock users inside their services as long as possible to make more money from advertising and promoted posts. Unfortunately unless something big happens to fix this issue, the internet is lo…

Those forums exist and are more widely-used than ever. They're just mostly hosted on reddit now.

Reddit uses machine learning models to maximize engagement. This ruins any of the forum-like qualities reddit had. It’s gross.

Every subreddit is constantly in the process of eternal September, which kills the dynamics of getting to know one another that were common on forums.

Social media that is good cannot have advertising and cannot be an algorithmic Skinner box that maximizes engagement.

I am starting to think of competing with Facebook as creating online tribes that are costly, perhaps even financially very costly, but full of rich directed action. Sometimes like the dynamics of a church, where users are collated into tribes of limited size.

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#64
> "The whole 'liking' and 'sharing' model is just garbage. There is no effort and no quality control. In fact, it's all geared to the reverse of quality control, with lowest common denominator targets, and click-bait, and things designed to generate an emotional response, often one of moral outrage," he said.

This is the crux of the issue IMO. Once it was possible to gain "fame" via Twitter/FB/IG, it was game over. People become incentivized to maximize their likes and followers instead of having conversations. A big following can get you anything from a distribution deal with a fly-by-night supplements company, all the way to a book deal and appearances on Oprah or Comedy Central.

On old-school forums/message boards, you had a community based on a specific shared interest, so people weren't completely anonymous strangers and weren't posting to lobby for attention among the broader community.

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#65
post #59

I think he puts Twitter there because he doesn't use it. If you follow the right people it actually promotes intelligent discourse.

You can find "intelligent discourse" everywhere on internet, even on 4chan/8chan and the like. The issue is signal/noise ratio. Instagram is particularly weird to me, look at what's trending, semi naked teenagers/stars, selfies and ads, that's all, for miles of scrolling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-followed_Instagra... Guy Debord used "images" as a metaphor but with Instagram it's not even a metaphor…

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#66

Is it just me, or does the article kind of suck? It starts with discussing who he is, and then his opinion, and the spends the next half of the article talking about what kind of person he is and how this is 'ironic' coming from _him_ of all people. Just seems weird that they give his opinion, and then we get someone else's opinion on HIM. That doesn't seem very unbiased. Maybe I am overthinking it.

It's a quick, crappy, cut-and-paste, article based on a recent interview with him. It's a complete trash article - standard for internet news now.

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#67
The actual Linus quote (not in the article):

Bob: If you had to fix one thing about the networked world, what would it be?

Linus: Nothing technical. But, I absolutely detest modern "social media"—Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. It's a disease. It seems to encourage bad behavior.

I think part of it is something that email shares too, and that I've said before: "On the internet, nobody can hear you being subtle". When you're not talking to somebody face to face, and you miss all the normal social cues, it's easy to miss humor and sarcasm, but it's also very easy to overlook the reaction of the recipient, so you get things like flame wars, etc., that might not happen as easily with face-to-face interaction.

But email still works. You still have to put in the effort to write it, and there's generally some actual content (technical or otherwise). The whole "liking" and "sharing" model is just garbage. There is no effort and no quality control. In fact, it's all geared to the reverse of quality control, with lowest common denominator targets, and click-bait, and things designed to generate an emotional response, often one of moral outrage.

Add in anonymity, and it's just disgusting. When you don't even put your real name on your garbage (or the garbage you share or like), it really doesn't help.

I'm actually one of those people who thinks that anonymity is overrated. Some people confuse privacy and anonymity and think they go hand in hand, and that protecting privacy means that you need to protect anonymity. I think that's wrong. Anonymity is important if you're a whistle-blower, but if you cannot prove your identity, your crazy rant on some social-media platform shouldn't be visible, and you shouldn't be able to share it or like it.

Oh well. Rant over. I'm not on any social media (I tried G+ for a while, because the people on it weren't the mindless usual stuff, but it obviously never went anywhere), but it still annoys me.

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#68
post #38

Oh Linus, after sacrificing your reputation and life's work to appease your daughter's politics, now you go and say something that will displease her. You are not great at brown-nosing, bless you man.

What are you saying?

Look up what happened when he washed his hands, I mean took his break from kernel development.

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#69
post #40

I think he puts Twitter there because he doesn't use it. If you follow the right people it actually promotes intelligent discourse.

"Intelligent discourse" -- no need to be so generous with your choice of words.

Maybe "meaningful" would be a better choice of word, not sure.

Re: Linus Torvalds Says Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram Are 'A Disease'

#70
post #14
post #7

Social media ruined the internet forever, even less than a decade ago there were websites, forums of all sorts and for all kinds of interests, now the internet for most people is just these social websites/apps which intentionally lock users inside their services as long as possible to make more money from advertising and promoted posts. Unfortunately unless something big happens to fix this issue, the internet is lo…

Those forums exist and are more widely-used than ever. They're just mostly hosted on reddit now.

The mechanics of Reddit are completely different from forums. Many niche subreddits have seen an entire change in culture and content quality simply because a single posts hit the front page, bringing with it a flood of new subscribers who simply post variations of that top-ranking post in order to gain upvotes, or "Reddit gold", a useless e-token that is somehow considered extremely valuable to some Redditors.
Post reply on HN