Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#141

Post by freshm087 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

Improvotter wrote: post #80

TuringNYC wrote: post #15

A lot depends on your particulars. I'm a minority and the US is great because I can earn opportunities my relatives in some other countries would not be allowed. In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. This is not to say we don't have room for improvement, we do. Just that we're more meritocratic than certain other first world countries. I know this ju…

> In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. I completely disagree. I'm from Europe and applied to a few American-based companies and they all had these ridiculous forms related to anti-discrimination and the like. Is it that big of a problem in the US? That's whay I'm asking myself when I have to fill in those forms. Why do you have to know my ethnicity?…

Europe doesn't currently have a problem with building a wall to keep the Mexicans out or anything.

This is plainly not true. EU has a lot of its own walls. It's just the fact that it lacks long land border with countries from which major migration flows originate is what makes it a lesser topic for debates.

Why do you think migrants coming from the Middle East prefer to cross Aegean sea, instead of going by land? Because land border is all fences, barbed wire, and even landmines with not a single gap.

And limiting migration is very hot political issue in many EU countries currently.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#142

Post by eitally » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

wayouteast wrote: post #67

matttproud wrote: post #5

As an American living abroad, I can subjectively confirm what the author writes. I have a hard time keeping a straight face when returning.

When my company sent me to South America to work, it was pretty revealing how American company culture is toxic. People from the home office in NY were literally complaining about South Americans getting too many vacation days, 1 hour lunches, and a lot of other perks that are guaranteed by law. All of this despite the south american employees making 30% of the NY salary. The head of HR complained about guaranteed 1…

This was my experience in Brazil, too. Everything was more expensive, unless it was made in Brazil. This was either due to import tariffs or price gouging (or just domestic taxation, as on petrol), but it was still hugely impactful.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#143

Post by JackFr » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

ihaveajob wrote: post #113

jlawson wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is not the deciding factor in American elections. Hillary Clinton spent twice as much as Donald Trump during the 2016 campaign.

That's one exception to the rule. A big one, being the most important election that happens every 4 year, but that doesn't negate the importance of money in campaigning.

Beto O’Rourke outspent Ted Cruz $79MM to $45MM. Another exception?

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#144

Post by frontloadpro » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

djanogo wrote: post #18

One constant thing in every country is there is always a narrative among certain percentage of population about how shitty their country is, America is no different, usually the people who feel this way are not nationalists. If you immigrated to US from third world country you would know how amazing this country is. It always be your choice to live how happily you want to live, you can quit wanting to climb the ladde…

I'm no nationalist, but I do enjoy my high paying Engineering job and low cost lifestyle.

I have concerns my pay would be lower and cost of living higher in Europe.

Looking to be able to retire by 32 years old.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#145

Post by ancarda » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:06 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #83

Many, dare I say the majority, of Americans don't have any desire to have the European way of life, culture or institutions. We like heavily processed Walmart peanut butter on our goddamn Wonderbread made from GMO wheat with jelly sweetened with corn syrup. We like our Budweiser and $10 "Chinese" buffet. We like driving our cheaply registered, insured, and fueled cars. We'd prefer to sit in traffic than wait for a tr…

As a European who wants the American way of life, thank you for this. At times it feels like I'm the only person in the world who likes America.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#146

Post by roganartu » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:06 PM UTC

huffmsa wrote: post #42

robenkleene wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think those people write poetry instead of creating side project businesses?

Regulations. Plain and simple. Your employees aren't allowed to work their asses off. They're going to expect to be able to get to work at 10, and be home by 5.

> Your employees aren't allowed to work their asses off.

Strict labour laws don't really prevent this in practice, if someone _wants_ to work themselves to death they can (I've worked with a remote team from Poland before while I was in Australia. Despite Poland having far strong labour laws than Australia, some members of the Polish team voluntarily worked longer hours and just didn't report it).

What labour laws do is prevent employers from forcing employees to work crazy hours. I think it's largely a cultural difference in the end. I live and work in the US now and here I've noticed the general sentiment that employees should be thankful to have a job and so should do whatever their employer says. It's also important to realise that highly compensated tech employees are less susceptible to this needing to work insane hours because we have much better leverage, but that doesn't stop people self-imposing longer hours due to cultural differences.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#147

Post by creaghpatr » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

Tor3 wrote: post #91

creaghpatr wrote: post #29

The linked blog is by a notorious America-hater Umair Haque, almost all of his pieces are slammed for similar reasons you see in this comments section. It's hate bait, nothing more. (I recommend "Why the Anglo World is Collapsing" /s) Take a look at his other work to get an idea of how seriously you should take this guy: https://eand.co/@umairh

I cannot understand why you would call it hate bait. [but please look at the actual article, not the link in the header· NB: I have no knowledge about the author other than that article. But the article is what's being discussed here.] He is, for example, pointing out that history shows that the way to progress is by "lifting one another up, not keeping anyone else down" and rejecting the "I rise by pulling you down"…

Cmon. Take this passage, right at the beginning:

>There is a myth of exceptionalism in America that prevents it from looking outward, and learning from the world. It is made up of littler myths about greed being good, the weak deserving nothing, society being an arena, not a lever, for the survival of the fittest — and America is busy recounting those myths, not learning from the world, in slightly weaker (Democrats) or stronger (Republicans) forms.

He makes a bunch of accusative statements that are intentionally designed to provoke bipartisan outrage, hence clicks and shares on forums like Hacker News. It's absolutely hate-bait.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#148

Post by wildermuthn » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

Obviously the quoted author has never lived an upper-class American life. Context is important when speaking about America. We have the third-largest population in the world and a larger degree in inequality than most of the countries in our GDP-bracket. There is no better place to live in the world if you are intelligent, determined, healthy, and ideally, rich and well-connected. As for the justice of such a situation, well, this is the perennial American debate: is inequality actually a good thing, or are we in a zero-sum game where wealth is a pie that never grows? See Paul Graham’s essays, as always.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#149

Post by sidesentists » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:07 PM UTC

TuringNYC wrote: post #15

A lot depends on your particulars. I'm a minority and the US is great because I can earn opportunities my relatives in some other countries would not be allowed. In some other countries, your ethnicity/background/religion would get in the way far more than in the US. This is not to say we don't have room for improvement, we do. Just that we're more meritocratic than certain other first world countries. I know this ju…

I think it depends on your frame of reference.

Sure, for certain individuals the US, or Europe, or much of Asia would provide a better life.

But compared to how things were in the past, the US has changed for the worse.

I'm a white male, so I can't really complain about being mistreated in the sense you're mentioning. But in talking to many people, and in my own experiences, there's a sense that the "meritocracy" is increasingly a falsehood based on survivorship bias.

My own sense is that this is largely driven by increasing income inequality, coupled with or driven itself by monopolies and rent-seeking behavior across many many domains. So a smaller and smaller pool of money is going around to those who are able and willing, and a disproportionate amount of it is going to a smaller few who either game the system, or who are willing to tolerate abuse.

Part of what the article is referencing, I think, is a shame among Americans to say this, because it's labeled as sour grapes or something. I also think part of it is a sense that admitting the system might be broken is actually less optimistic because it amounts to some admission that you don't have agency. But these seem increasingly untenable as positions to have.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#150

Post by fxj » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

wozniacki wrote: post #131

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK homicide rate: 1.20 per 100,000 German homicide rate: 1.18 per 100,000 US homicide rate: 5.35 per 100,000 Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

Well would you care to clarify how well these fine folks are doing in various European capitals while youre at it? Surely they are neither inking poetry at tony cafes nor building businesses, now are they? [1][2][3] [1] Benefits Street S01E01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqvsF2bBu4o [2] The Streets of Paris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Js8wntdk4 [3] Only Two Men Convicted After 1,200 Sexual Assaults In Cologn…

Reason for the low convition rate [3]. The cameras were too bad:

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/koeln-silvester-justiz-101....

Perpetrators could hardly be identified

In Cologne, the charges resulted in preliminary proceedings against 290 suspects and to date in 43 indictments against a total of 52 defendants; in addition, six orders of summary punishment were issued. According to the local court, six of the cases are still pending. But most of the proceedings deal with accusations such as theft, robbery or receiving stolen goods. The allegation of sexual coercion was made in only three proceedings against a total of six accused persons.

The biggest difficulty for the investigators: Many of the suspected perpetrators of sexual assaults from New Year's Eve could only be identified with difficulty afterwards. The investigators evaluated more than 1000 hours of image material, for example from surveillance cameras. However, in most cases it was not possible to identify individual persons.