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Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
141–150 of 285 posts
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#142pilots should not have to fight the system. can there not be a simple button, "switch to manual"?
there is a manual override but once you are fully trimmed down manually trimming up takes time and time is something you don't have much of with the plane pitching down near the ground.
If it takes too long to adjust trim to a desired position, why can’t the pilots still pitch up by pulling back on the yoke?
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's worse than that. When they refitted the 737 with newer, larger engines to create the 737 Max there wasn't enough room, so they were shifted forwards (look at the pictures - the engines are almost in front of the wings). This created a setup where the thrust could make the plane pitch up in certain cituations - the system isn't in balance anymore. Thus the sensor to detect pitch-up and the software to try to comp…
> This created a setup where the trust could make the plane pitch up No, not related to thrust. All underwing-engined airliners pitch with thrust. I wish we could stamp out this falsehoid. The nacelles added aerodynamic effects at high AoA.
Pointing only at thrust is probably inaccurate, I agree. However, several sources point to the shifted center of gravity as a cause of the pitch, not just aerodynamic effects. For example an analyst at Leeham Co. (https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-737-max-crash-...)
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think in this case it probably wasn't meant to be racism on Boeing's part--Boeing just has a history of immediately blaming the pilots for every crash. Latent racism may have helped some people believe it was the pilots' fault, but I wouldn't ascribe the actual racism part to Boeing in this case.
Pilot error is the leading cause of airplane crashes. If someone offers you an even money wager that pays you if the next crash will have pilot error as a significant cause, take the wager. I am at least twice as likely to kill my airplane than my airplane is to kill me.
How many accidents blamed on "pilot error" are a result of the pilot not being given enough information to make the right decision, or given the wrong information? I'm not saying that pilots are completely faultless but if they're making mistakes we should look to improve the systems and procedures that allow them to make the right decisions, not start pointing fingers.
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#145Will be interesting to see the details when the report is actually public. It does sound like the scenario that Mentourpilot explored in the simulator is close to what happened, namely: Bad AoA probe causes MCAS to trim down, and also to indicate IAS disagree. Pilots increase throttle as per non-normal checklist to reduce the risk of stalling due to unreliable airspeed. Pilots disable electric stabilizer trim, as per…
I'm an armchair non-expert at best: but shouldn't planes always be controllable by the column so long as the plane is mechanically OK? I.e. max power + pull stick should always just take the plane up, regardless of any amount of misconfiguration such as being out-of-trim etc?
Isn't that a reasonable expectation? That is: a pilot in panic at low altitude should never be required to do anything more than he basically can with hands on throttle and stick, to avoid disaster?
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe just jettison wings+engines+cargo? Though I agree that broadly safety is solved. And obviously we must heavily reduce air travel to combat global warming.
So let's say you've successfully engineered a plane with detachable wings. Congratulations! Now what happens when this system malfunctions and one wing pops off for no reason in normal flight?
You pop the remaining parts and deploy the parachute ;)
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#147[flagged]
The reason they were flying in the first place was due to capitalism. The reason you're able to read this story on this website is due to capitalism. I don't get your point.
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
It actually seems to be normal practice to quickly allocate blame, even when its quite clear that little if any investigation has actually taken place. One of the effects of allocating blame is that large swathes of the general public will "switch off" and not ask questions of their politicians, who in turn apply little pressure to improve or advocate for improved standards (which big business and comfortable institu…
>It actually seems to be normal practice to quickly allocate blame, even when its quite clear that little if any investigation has actually taken place. Readers would do well to remember this also applies to all the people who were 100% sure it was MCAS related before the wreckage even stopped smoldering.
No points for being correct? Why play the game then!!
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Excuse me, no. This incident was decidedly not their fault. The blame lies 100% with Boing. This event doesn’t not count toward their safety rating.
Some ratings count events regardless of whose fault it is unfortunately.
The airline chose to trust the safety of Boeing's planes. They deserve a greater than zero amount of blame if it turns out that it was a poor choice.
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some ratings count events regardless of whose fault it is unfortunately.
The airline chose to trust the safety of Boeing's planes. They deserve a greater than zero amount of blame if it turns out that it was a poor choice.
Yes but assigning responsibility is a complex process, it would make the issue more complex, even if it is a systemic issue with the equipment.