Finland’s Basic Income Experiment Shows Recipients Are Happier and More Secure

Post by notahacker » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 12:25 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #28

shireboy wrote: post #19

I’m sorry, but “getting free money makes people happy” isn’t exactly a shocking result is it? The result that the employment level was consistent is mildly interesting, though I’d expect the numbers could be different with a longer or larger test. But the real question imo is “does this scale without destroying the country’s finances?”

"I’m sorry, but “getting free money makes people happy” isn’t exactly a shocking result is it?" Well, in the context of the experiment the people would have been able to garner state support through a bit more complex social security / social services schemes so it's not entirely about that they have more resources available, but also how they were given those resources and how many needless strings were attached to…

Post by jpindar » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 12:26 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #30

lotsofpulp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to provide a sustainable and desirable quality of life for all, and economic activity is one or part of a way to achieve it. I don’t think people will just stop wanting to go out to restaurants, or skiing, or whatever other activities they want to do. And if they want to do them, they will have to work. And especially to attract a quality mate.

> And if they want to do them, they will have to work. I thought that was the argument _against_ UBI?

Post by ams6110 » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 12:27 PM UTC

perfunctory wrote: post #89

Talyen42 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an employed person making 100k, if given UBI I would quit and not do anything productive-to-society for most of the rest of my life. So yes, that is a legitimate argument. The counter-argument is that the benefit coming from more people pursuing entrepreneurial/risk-taking/passion-driven endeavors will OUTWEIGH the lazy fucks like me.

I am employed and making more than 100K and still I am not doing anything productive for society. So even if I quit given UBI and become "unproductive" it will have no meaningful impact on anything.

Post by SiempreViernes » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 12:28 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #108

keymone wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the argument goes that if people get free money they lose motivation to work and spend all their time on a sofa killing time, which isn't healthy physiologically and mentally. it's quite idiotic argument, but i've personally met people who discard the whole idea of UBI based on it alone.

You have villages all over the world where unemployment is high. They're poor and insecure, but aren't starving to death. What does the record show? Do they want jobs or handouts? Are they creating mini renaissances of the arts and sophisticated political communes, or getting high, staying shiftless, and forming gangs?

Post by fxj » Thu, Apr 04, 2019, 12:28 PM UTC

carlmr wrote: post #113

fxj wrote: post #65

A big problem about the basic income is that it is perceived as money that you get for nothing and so people don't have to work and therefore they are lazy. Let me give you an analogy: Imagine that breathing air would cost money and you would have to work in order to breathe. Unless you don't work you would die. Would then a basic income be something that makes you lazy or would it be something that gives you confide…

The problem with your analogy is that other people have to work to make the food, provide the medical care, produce the clothing, and give shelter. You don't do anything to produce air (more likely we do the opposite). The question is, can we make the economy work while providing everyone with these basic needs. If too many people stop working, either the people that are working will be reduced to a similar sustenanc…