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Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

bbc.co.uk

81–90 of 285 posts

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#81

I’d love to see those people who accused the airline and crew of being incompetent to apologize in the light of these reports. It was shameful to see Boeing actively encouraging that narrative behind the scenes. Especially considering it plays on racist stereotypes equating „Africa“ with bad training/bad safety record/…. The idea of „dingy third world airline“ was ridiculous on its face, considering how bad a fit fly…

[deleted]

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#82
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe just jettison wings+engines+cargo? Though I agree that broadly safety is solved. And obviously we must heavily reduce air travel to combat global warming.

The question then becomes are can a plane fly with each of those attached by structural bulkheads & explosive bolts. The remaining ‘crew and passenger capsule’ would need to remain sealed.

Maybe solid forms could be explosively or electrically welded off.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#83
post #46

Every time I read about these plane accidents, I wonder why planes don't have any emergency features to save these people. Couldn't you build a plane that would eject the cabin as a parachute module or something. Yes, I'm sure this is naive, but why? Edit: My point is that almost anything is better than crashing down with the plane.

costs and motivation I suppose some air vehicles have whole frame parachutes but not the scale of 737. I was wondering if a plane could not be made out of separate cabins coupled together (I can hear engineers die of laughter) so that they could be break loose with their own parachute.

Yes, that splitting up would be one of the follow-up questions.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Their safety rating is better was better. sucks cause its not even their fault.

Excuse me, no. This incident was decidedly not their fault. The blame lies 100% with Boing. This event doesn’t not count toward their safety rating.

Some ratings count events regardless of whose fault it is unfortunately.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#85

pilots should not have to fight the system. can there not be a simple button, "switch to manual"?

MCAS can be disabled, but pilots says this may not help in some situations:

> On the simulator when the stabilizer was "on a dive" at maximum angle, me and my colleagues weren't able to recover a plane.

> If you follow Boeing bulletin, but start the procedure too late, it will only make things worse. Simpler solution (in case of problems right after takeoff) is to release the flaps at least to the first position. This will disable MCAS and give you an additional time.

Source: https://denokan.livejournal.com/204046.html (Russian)

Google translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3...

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#86

I’d love to see those people who accused the airline and crew of being incompetent to apologize in the light of these reports. It was shameful to see Boeing actively encouraging that narrative behind the scenes. Especially considering it plays on racist stereotypes equating „Africa“ with bad training/bad safety record/…. The idea of „dingy third world airline“ was ridiculous on its face, considering how bad a fit fly…

It actually seems to be normal practice to quickly allocate blame, even when its quite clear that little if any investigation has actually taken place.

One of the effects of allocating blame is that large swathes of the general public will "switch off" and not ask questions of their politicians, who in turn apply little pressure to improve or advocate for improved standards (which big business and comfortable institutions see as too much government interference).

I can't recall any such incident where it wasn't implied that the it was the pilots fault, implying incompetence. The fact that most of us may have inherent and often unconscious racial biases (black and white and other actually display the exactly the same biases) just makes this play damage control that much easier.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#88
post #28

pilots should not have to fight the system. can there not be a simple button, "switch to manual"?

Naive question, but is the plane actually possible to fly in "manual"?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1...

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was posted on PPrune: "Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789 Since this video may not be coming back I'll post a sort of transcript from memory since I was lucky enough to get to watch it. I'll try and just describe what I saw and keep my commentary/speculation to a minimum - in . Bear in mind this is a non-pilot observer's take on it from flaky memory: There is a fair bit of intro talk then the sim. They are…

Is anybody here capable of calculating the force required to move the trim tabs on a 737MAX at 310 knots at low altitude? I imagine at that speed there would be quite some force on the elevator and trim tabs.

There's no trim tab on a 737 - the whole horizontal stabilizer is moved to trim the aircraft in pitch. Normally this is done electrically, but the stabilizer jackscrew can also be moved using manual trimwheels that move the jackscrew using physical cables. Whether this is possible at high airspeed while the stabilizer is trimmed nose down, and the elevator is being pulled up as hard as you can to avoid diving - that's the question that is being raised.

Edit: this shows the jackscrew in operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxPa9A-k2xY

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'

#90
post #46

Every time I read about these plane accidents, I wonder why planes don't have any emergency features to save these people. Couldn't you build a plane that would eject the cabin as a parachute module or something. Yes, I'm sure this is naive, but why? Edit: My point is that almost anything is better than crashing down with the plane.

Halfbaked idea: perhaps you could make an airbag that you can wear as a garment, and which you inflate if a crash is imminent.

Of course, if everybody in the plane wears one, you could have a space problem, but it would provide extra protection by compartmentalization.

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