Perhaps the pilots didn't have the energy to pull up due to the famine?
You don't belong in this community
Better for a troll to see their post casually ignored than to receive exactly what they want.
Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
31–40 of 285 posts
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#32There you have it, folks, programmers killing people. No, it wasn't on-purpose, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. This, of course, has been happening for a long time, it's just getting more and more obvious now. I feel strongly that AF 447 was an example. It's important to understand that this is the natural result of two trends. One, software/hardware systems continue to become more and more complex, many time…
Why is this a software problem? Even if there is a software “fix,” doesn’t it seem that this tells us more about regulatory capture than using software to patch over bad hardware decisions?
It's a bad mechanical design, Boeing didn't want to spend money on retraining pilots, they asked software to fix it, software fixed it so that it remained the same, software had a bug, training didn't incorporate new system, because that was the point of the software, to not require a new type rating.
I think this is process failure from start to finish. Any sufficiently complex system will have bugs in it, whether it's software or not. I think the other failures are much worse. You have to account for your system maybe failing and your pilots have to be trained to deal with this failure.
And yes, software kills people, but no software kills even more people. Just look at how airplanes, cars etc. have improved safety through assistance systems.
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#33Has anyone checked if there is MCAS on the 787?
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#34I’d love to see those people who accused the airline and crew of being incompetent to apologize in the light of these reports. It was shameful to see Boeing actively encouraging that narrative behind the scenes. Especially considering it plays on racist stereotypes equating „Africa“ with bad training/bad safety record/…. The idea of „dingy third world airline“ was ridiculous on its face, considering how bad a fit fly…
You’re right. Africa is clearly a haven of technological innovation and progress.
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#35I’m a social capitalist. IMO, it seldom happens that the free market does not punish companies who make serious errors. For those times, logic, common sense & societal regulation should step in, punish the company with fines ratcheting up until free market clearly loses confidence.
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#36Has anyone checked if there is MCAS on the 787?
No there isn't
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#37There you have it, folks, programmers killing people. No, it wasn't on-purpose, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. This, of course, has been happening for a long time, it's just getting more and more obvious now. I feel strongly that AF 447 was an example. It's important to understand that this is the natural result of two trends. One, software/hardware systems continue to become more and more complex, many time…
It is bad hardware design with a software bandaid rushed in to maximize profits.
I agree with you though; I have said for many years that the way we write software (move fast, break things and shittier languages and infra like js and node) will eventually kill more people than most other man made disasters. Simply because the push for cheaper juniors in places where they do not belong.
Less bad but still potentially life altering I see every day in healthcare, insurance and payments: software is so horribly patched together that money just gets lost or misdirected.
I am biased as I was raised by a pupil of Dijkstra and studied under 2 of them as well, but for me there are solutions; tla+, Coq and languages with static typing. Not because these are silver bullets in their own right, but more because you cannot ‘move fast, break things’ in them; you have to think and plan a lot more as refactoring is very hard. Companies like Amazon uses tla+ a lot so I wonder why it is not standard practice in any place where lives are affected (aviation but also money and healthcare).
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#38I’d love to see those people who accused the airline and crew of being incompetent to apologize in the light of these reports. It was shameful to see Boeing actively encouraging that narrative behind the scenes. Especially considering it plays on racist stereotypes equating „Africa“ with bad training/bad safety record/…. The idea of „dingy third world airline“ was ridiculous on its face, considering how bad a fit fly…
> It was shameful to see Boeing actively encouraging that narrative behind the scenes.
Is it shameful because we suspect that it was an intentional lie on their behalf, or is it shameful even if it was honest opinion of these Boeing representatives at the time?
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#39If this was indeed MCAS, it is my understanding they 'could have' stopped this by turning off power to the electronic stabilizer trim.
Ah yes ofcourse. Just hit pause to stop time, mute the people screaming in the rear, get a cup of coffee, sit back and think out of the box.
Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 pilots 'could not stop nosedive'
#40I’m a social capitalist. IMO, it seldom happens that the free market does not punish companies who make serious errors. For those times, logic, common sense & societal regulation should step in, punish the company with fines ratcheting up until free market clearly loses confidence.
With this kind of publicity I don't see how can Boeing can possibly not punished by the market itself. Even before 737 Max fleet was grounded, I already started hearing, from a lot of different people, that they wouldn't fly on that plane.