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Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#261

Post by eptcyka »

busterarm wrote: post #135
falcor84 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, prefer to avoid bringing your own devices with you when you fly. Leave your laptop and smartphone at home, and rent temporary ones after you cross.

Better, have a secure server at home and ansible playbooks to set up laptops (including getting any minor secrets that you need onto that laptop. Restrict more important stuff to just ssh). If your threat model doesn't include physical tampering/rootkits, just wipe your devices pre-travel and set it up when you get where you're going. If it does and you can afford to mitigate that risk, arrange to have cheap new devi…

Would work if you trusted that the devices weren't tampered during inspection. Why would I put my keys on something which might've been wiretapped? If you really need to compute whilst traveling or through the states, just buy something cheap whilst you're there.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#262

Post by geofft »

xeeeeeeeeeeenu wrote: post #207
geofft wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good points. Military technology isn't that important, therefore the US continues to be the best country because it has the best military technology. Also, it's okay that the US didn't defend Europe from Communism because it was allied with the Communists.

So you are saying that USA should have started WW3 immediately after WW2?

Oh, I'm not taking issue with the US's behavior. I'm just taking issue with people who use it to argue that the US is the bestest country evar. If it really were, it would have been able to defeat the USSR soundly with its superior military technology.

It's perfectly fine to admit the US is a mediocre large country, absolutely worth living in, but not some singular shining glory. It's perfectly fine to admit the US is bad at both picking and waging wars. That's my position.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#263

Post by altmind »

Dangeranger wrote: post #169
vageli wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for this type of detainment?

There is not. Customs and Border Patrol operate under a special set of circumstances within ports of entry. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during the interrogation, you can have your personal belongings confiscated, you can be held without charge for up to four hours for any "reasonable" suspicion. These same rules apply within one hundred miles of the United States border. So if you live near…

> [100-mile] border zone is home to 65.3 percent of the entire U.S. population, and around 75 percent of the U.S. Hispanic population

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#264

Post by microtherion »

cyberfart wrote: post #204
mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

Can they deny entry to a non citizen and hold their stuff?

I don't think there's any country in the world that doesn't reserve the right to deny entry to non-citizens for any reason they choose.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#265

Post by GordonS »

gist wrote: post #182
alex_hitchins wrote: post #18

The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.

> the message it sends to me is, never visit America Message? So you read one story and a bunch of HN comments and that is how you decide?

It's not just one story though - there have been plenty stories and comments on HN, as well as other places.

I'd be surprised if anyone who regularly travels to the US hasn't found it to be extremely unpleasant at times. A while back I spent 6 months or so going back and forth from the UK to Houston or Atlanta, and every time I absolutely hated going through immigration. I've travelled to dozens of countries, and literally everywhere I've found the border guards to be friendly - except the US. Every time they behaved like power-hungry bullies, or I saw them behaving that way towards others. One time I travelled with a female colleague who was basically harassed by ridiculous questions from a very angry and loud border guard for no reason at all. He wasn't satisfied until she was in tears.

Another time there was a really long queue after getting off a flight (think it took over an hour to get to the desk), and there was a pregnant woman in the queue who seemed unwell and wanted to sit down - a guard shouted at her to stay in line, refused to get her a chair, and refused to let her jump forward in the queue (despite prompting from willing fellow passengers).

So the reason people don't want to travel to the US? Because it's a fucking horrible experience.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#266

Post by jandrese »

misterdata wrote: post #225
bumbledraven wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turning them on doesn't reduce the security. The issue is unlocking them. As far as the security of the data on the device is concerned, a powered-off device is equivalent to a powered-on device that hasn't been unlocked since it was powered on.

Pro tip: on newer iPhones with either Face ID or Touch ID, holding the sleep/wake button and the volume down button for some time puts the device in a mode where Touch/Face ID are disabled, the phone is locked, and the device passcode is required to unlock.

Touch/Face ID are also disabled when you boot the phone, so turning it off is sufficient.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#268

Post by vkou »

musha68k wrote: post #44
mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better locations for this reason alone.

Could you give us a set of countries whose customs agencies cannot refuse entry to non-residents, for any reason whatsoever, including no reason?

I have a feeling that is an empty set.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#269

Post by schoen »

wang_li wrote: post #253
schoen wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is often called "sterile transit" (the ability to depart the airport without passing through immigration), and the U.S. and Mexico (and apparently Canada) don't allow this, while generally European and Asian countries do. https://wikitravel.org/en/Avoiding_a_transit_of_the_United_S...

I've had to go through security and immigration when flying through Dublin and Seoul. So I don't think you can exempt Europe and Asia from the list.

Were you flying to or from somewhere else in Europe in the Dublin case? A subtlety about this which has just come up elsewhere in this thread is that the whole Schengen Area is treated as a single "country" for immigration purposes, so if you have an intra-European flight, you have to enter or exit "Europe" in the course of a transfer to or from an external flight.

But I think if you fly, for example, from New York to Paris and then on to Tunis, you don't have to go through immigration controls in Paris.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#270

Post by chuckgreenman »

navigatesol wrote: post #59
Zak wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have mentioned, lying to the agents is illegal. This isn't: The password to this freshly wiped device is "Orwell1984". Feel free to have a look, but all you'll find is an app called "Secure Erase Free Space". This SD card I'm carrying separately? No, you can't have the password to that. Yes, I know, you can hold it indefinitely.

> No, you can't have the password to that. Yes, I know, you can hold it indefinitely. I have a hard time believing that an audience that finds buying a car stressful (as is often stated in Tesla threads) is going to demonstrate assertiveness to a real authority...

People on Hacker News are also pretty likely to back ups. Getting your work laptop confiscated by agents will probably only earn you points at work.

There's also a good argument to be made that the search is illegal, it's important that everyone stand up for that, even if its stressful.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/04/bill-rights-border-fou...

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