Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

theregister.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 378 posts

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#181

Post by folex »

abstractbarista wrote: post #97
theandrewbailey wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make sure your devices are turned off prior to even leaving for the airport. Security may ask you to turn them back on, not to search them, but to verify that they are actual working devices, and not a bomb.

Very good point. The key here is to make sure your devices are all fully encrypted. Feel free to turn them on to prove they are real. But never decrypt. If this results in you missing your flight, so be it .

> But never decrypt. If this results in you missing your flight, so be it.

Why? Is that more important to stay locked than miss granma's funeral, or more positively, 75th birthday?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#182

Post by gist »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #18

The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.

> the message it sends to me is, never visit America

Message? So you read one story and a bunch of HN comments and that is how you decide?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#183

Post by freehunter »

coldtea wrote: post #149
Something1234 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you find a rented laptop trustworthy?

Why wouldn't a rented laptop be trustworthy?

Because it's someone else's hardware, someone else's software, and someone else's firmware.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#184

Post by 0815test »

Dangeranger wrote: post #169
vageli wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for this type of detainment?

There is not. Customs and Border Patrol operate under a special set of circumstances within ports of entry. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during the interrogation, you can have your personal belongings confiscated, you can be held without charge for up to four hours for any "reasonable" suspicion. These same rules apply within one hundred miles of the United States border. So if you live near…

> So if you live near the any ocean, Great Lakes, the Mexican border or Canadian border, you live under a different set of rights than the rest of America.

Interesting. You'd think that "real America" was just a turn of phrase - turns out that it isn't, that there is a Real America and that it does care far more about protecting individual rights.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#185

Post by Balgair »

Dangeranger wrote: post #169
vageli wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Border agents may lie about your rights? Is there no Miranda equivalent for this type of detainment?

There is not. Customs and Border Patrol operate under a special set of circumstances within ports of entry. You do not have the right to have an attorney present during the interrogation, you can have your personal belongings confiscated, you can be held without charge for up to four hours for any "reasonable" suspicion. These same rules apply within one hundred miles of the United States border. So if you live near…

Or an international airport. Sorry Denver!

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#186

Post by monetus »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #18

The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.

Hold fast for now, and watch for when the trends of our enforcement change.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#187

Post by rdiddly »

mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

I also wouldn't answer any questions. If you're being detained and questioned by law enforcement, you have a right to have an attorney present. And to be charged with a crime within a certain timeframe, for that matter. If there's none of that, hey by golly you must not be under arrest and this isn't a legal proceeding. Answer every question by reminding them you're a US citizen. Maybe repeat your social security number dramatically as if you're a POW in the hands of a foreign power. (Certainly you're in the hands of some traitors against the USA, so it's not a huge stretch.)

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#188

Post by 0_gravitas »

DigiMortal wrote: post #96
saiya-jin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is awesome, I appreciate and know how lucky we are to be here. In which regard? Compared to which place?

We lead the world in R&D, we aren't in a surveillance state like China (~1.3B people), we aren't undeveloped, we have the US dollar - the commanding world currency. We develop the best military technology, space technology, most all technology. We issue the most patents, by far. We (as people) have more rights than most all other nations and we led many other rights to attain rights for their own citizens. We protect…

What an embarrassment.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#189

Post by roywiggins »

Tharkun wrote: post #139
rocqua wrote: post #39

It was my understanding that 5-th amendment protections against unreasonable searches are suspended at the border. That would certainly include customs at the airport. So, in a strict legal sense, demanding to unlock a device does not violate the 5th.

As a non-American, can someone explain to me why the entire constitution wouldn't be applicable upon entering your own country? This makes no sense to me, but it seems to be the way it is?

It's called the "border search exception." It's not exactly that the constitution does not apply, but that certain searches are- in the context of the border- considered "reasonable", that would not be in the interior. The 4th amendment is not an absolute right- a search just has to be "reasonable;" context is a big factor into whether a search is reasonable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

> This balance at international borders means that routine searches are "reasonable" there, and therefore do not violate the Fourth Amendment's proscription against "unreasonable searches and seizures".

According to Wikipedia, there is currently a circuit split* on whether phone searches at the border require individualized suspicion, or can be conducted routinely, without falling foul of the 4th amendment.

* (two sets of appeals courts have ruled in contradictory ways; these splits can be resolved by SCOTUS if they choose)

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#190

Post by barkingcat »

Diederich wrote: post #84
thebooktocome wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, don't fly through the US to get to that conference in Canada.

Is it a risk if you stay in the airport, in the secure zone? (Whatever it's called...I've flown rarely over the past couple of decades.)

Yes the secure zone is even more risky in my opinion.
Post reply on HN