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Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#41

Post by chrisseaton »

mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

> US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country

Going to a prison somewhere in the US is 'reentry' I suppose.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#42

Post by petschge »

manishsharan wrote: post #5
mcv wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep data off your devices during travel, and download it once you're safe. If corporate, require external activation by someone from the company before the contents of your device are restored. That way you cannot be forced to divulge any company trade secrets, because you simply don't have access to them while you're crossing the border.

Some companies issue "China" Laptops to their executives that they must discard after visiting China. Now I believe we all need throw away laptops and cell phones and Facebook accounts for any sort of international travel.

I know that at least one big German chemical company is doing exactly the same for US trips, because they have evidence of industrial espionage attempts against then. Executives that have to go to any non-European country get a clean laptop, with nothing but the VPN client installed and access is only enabled after the traveler has reached the destination and has called and given a verbal "all good". On return the laptop is not connected to the internal network, but wiped clean.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#43

Post by BenMorganIO »

droithomme wrote: post #23
CaptainZapp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually wondering what happens if I'm ever asked about Facebook credentials when travelling to the US. Fact is: I don't do Facebook, nor any other Facebook product, so I'm really not able to hand over any such credentials.

Like you I don't do Facebook and I have every Facebook domain blocked. No one except my immediate family believes I don't use Facebook and considers it an affront when I say I don't use it in response to their request "What's your Facebook?" Many people can't imagine anyone doesn't have a Facebook account. Anyone who says they don't is presumed a liar who is socially rejecting them by refusing to connect. With TSA/Cu…

2019 appears to have lots of students who, although always on their phone, a good bunch don't have Facebook and consider it outdated. Instagram is the new Facebook.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#44

Post by musha68k »

mikeash wrote: post #14

Quick reminder: US citizens have an absolute right to reenter the country. Customs can temporarily detain you, but they cannot refuse entry. Any threat, whether implied or stated, that they will hold you until you unlock your device is not real. They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route, but never unlock your device based on the idea that it’s the only way to go free. Non-c…

Quick reminder: Non US citizens only go to conferences outside the US. There is no excuse we should put up with this. Canada and EU are much better locations for this reason alone.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#45

Post by Zak »

mcv wrote: post #3
chuckgreenman wrote: post #2

I'm hoping that manufactures will start building a plausible deniability user profile you can log into while leaving your actual profile encrypted, appearing to be slack space. This kind of thuggery seems to be getting more common.

Keep data off your devices during travel, and download it once you're safe. If corporate, require external activation by someone from the company before the contents of your device are restored. That way you cannot be forced to divulge any company trade secrets, because you simply don't have access to them while you're crossing the border.

As others have mentioned, lying to the agents is illegal. This isn't:

The password to this freshly wiped device is "Orwell1984". Feel free to have a look, but all you'll find is an app called "Secure Erase Free Space". This SD card I'm carrying separately? No, you can't have the password to that. Yes, I know, you can hold it indefinitely.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#46

Post by archgoon »

droithomme wrote: post #15
mcv wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep data off your devices during travel, and download it once you're safe. If corporate, require external activation by someone from the company before the contents of your device are restored. That way you cannot be forced to divulge any company trade secrets, because you simply don't have access to them while you're crossing the border.

Even that is not sufficient short of a full factory reset. It can be very difficult to impossible to clear all caches and logs, or even know about them. Once the agent has your password and takes the device into their back room for an hour, you have to assume that all data has been offloaded and the device has had an undetectable rootkit added. This gentleman's expertise is in security and encryption and now he works…

> Any device that you lose physical control of during these encounters must be presumed to be compromised and should be physically destroyed afterwards.

Seems unwise to destroy evidence. Find the rootkit, or have your employer or security researcher do so, prove it's existence, and sue the Government.

But yes, definitely get a new laptop.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#47

Post by DigiMortal »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #18

The message it sends to me is, never visit America. I appreciate horrible things likely happen in my own country, but this is just disgusting.

America is awesome, I appreciate and know how lucky we are to be here.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#49

Post by criddell »

rocqua wrote: post #39

It was my understanding that 5-th amendment protections against unreasonable searches are suspended at the border. That would certainly include customs at the airport. So, in a strict legal sense, demanding to unlock a device does not violate the 5th.

And if a US citizen refuses to unlock a device, what do you think the consequences could be?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#50

Post by criddell »

ape4 wrote: post #12
mcv wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep data off your devices during travel, and download it once you're safe. If corporate, require external activation by someone from the company before the contents of your device are restored. That way you cannot be forced to divulge any company trade secrets, because you simply don't have access to them while you're crossing the border.

Can they ask for online logins?

For a lot of websites (like Facebook), that's a violation of their ToS and I'm not sure they can ask you to break a contract.
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