Linkedin asks you to do the same at every page.
I never gave mine, and haven't seen that in years. Not that I think they're a decent company.
Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
211–220 of 377 posts
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it fascinating how big tech companies are intent on spending enormous sums of money seeking out the top tech talent in the world. Then rather than listen to them when they voice concerns they try to beat them down into submission. I get that if you worked at a company whose core mission is evil that you just have to accept that when you sign up, but there's no reason facebook needs to be make these active mora…
Top tech talent generally have no idea how businesses make money. So of course you’d ignore them.
Where's the greater RoI in this case, what shady shit were they doing once they gained access to users email passwords??
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#213I dont know why anyone with any commonsense still uses Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. They're completely uncontrolled nonsense that I wouldn't trust with my email address. Let alone my phone number. Call me crazy or socially inept, but I value privacy.
Fear Of Missing Out. Many people feel compelled to remain on Facebook because they're afraid of missing out on events that get scheduled through Facebook. But here is what I discovered: people who like you will go out of their way to make sure you get the invitation, even if that means using something barbaric and old fashioned like a phone number or email address. FOMO is probably Facebook's most valuable asset, but…
> people who like you will go out of their way to make sure you get the invitation
Yeah, but sometimes you want to get invited by people who don't actually like you enough (or even know you well enough) to remember you're not on Facebook.
I'm not on FB, but I know of multiple local groups discussing issues and organizing meetings on private FB groups, which would be hard to participate in without an account.
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't possibly be serious. Google continues to make the majority of their money from advertising. And since those early days they have not released a single product which has helped to diversify their revenue stream. But they've had plenty of failures along the way. Facebook is far more interesting in terms of diversification. Payments via Messenger/WhatsApp is going to be great for them and is already doing well…
The only big companies that seem to be able to diversify their income somewhat are Microsoft and Amazon. Microsoft makes its money from various products and services, and Amazon now makes a lot of money from AWS let alone its online shopping. Compared to those two Google and Facebook are one hit wonders.
Amazon loses money on their online shopping. It is their consumer-facing offering so it grows their brand, while they make their money via services like AWS.
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Easy. The engineers who built it care mostly about their total compensation and getting promoted. They therefore gleefully implement the product requirements. The PMs behind the idea also care about the above, except they are held to account by business objectives. By narrowly optimizing for a particular objective (reducing account fraud) in an unprincipled manner, they come up with an insane feature idea like this.…
I find it fascinating how big tech companies are intent on spending enormous sums of money seeking out the top tech talent in the world. Then rather than listen to them when they voice concerns they try to beat them down into submission. I get that if you worked at a company whose core mission is evil that you just have to accept that when you sign up, but there's no reason facebook needs to be make these active mora…
It is an authoritarian mentality fundamentally of "social order" - that they are beneath them so it is the "proper order" to obey. Above profitability even. You can see that bit of outright sadism with retail in particular but the pathology exists elsewhere. Rivals of Costco are angry with them for paying their employees more to get better motivated ones and less shrinkage - when if they think it is a waste of money be happy about it. Instead irrational rage because they transgress their precious social order.
It is part of the norm but the norm is horrifying and stupid yet you are the crazy one for suggesting something different like actually listening to the people you pay to think.
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it fascinating how big tech companies are intent on spending enormous sums of money seeking out the top tech talent in the world. Then rather than listen to them when they voice concerns they try to beat them down into submission. I get that if you worked at a company whose core mission is evil that you just have to accept that when you sign up, but there's no reason facebook needs to be make these active mora…
That's exactly why they spend that much money. They know you can be submitted. They want tech talent. Not revolutionists. It's a rough world out there and it's better to get in line than lose your pot of gold. Doesn't make it right at all. But if you were that engineer, it's easier to say to yourself that you'll work your way up and change things the day you are in charge.
It's not revolutionary to say that asking for user passwords is stupid and dangerous. Nothing good will come from giving your email account password to Facebook (or any company). It's also a basic human rights violation. We all have a right to our passwords. We do not have to share them with organizations seeking to exploit us and our information. It's just basic common sense, not revolutionary.
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
People with any sense of ethics don't work at Facebook.
Maybe, but that's very counter-productive actually. If you want to do ethical stuff FB is a perfect place to try to influence what happens.
Eh I don't think that holds universally - and even when it does is an inversion of responsibility. A small mutual protection street gang maybe could work for with resources but one doesn't make a vicious gang like the Cartels nicer by joining them and trying to reform them from the inside.
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#218I just don't understand how this gets implemented without someone speaking up and saying "hey, wait, isn't this an insane thing to do?". I would guess it's some combination of the complainers being ignored, and people at a higher level thinking "well we're doing this in a secure way, as long as the user trusts us, and why wouldn't they trust us, we're Facebook!".
> and people at a higher level thinking "well we're doing this in a secure way" I have never had a higher level person worrying at all about security except as a nuisance when prodded.
I have seen security worried about but even then it is often ironically misaimed like attempted DRM or bad password policies.
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Easy. The engineers who built it care mostly about their total compensation and getting promoted. They therefore gleefully implement the product requirements. The PMs behind the idea also care about the above, except they are held to account by business objectives. By narrowly optimizing for a particular objective (reducing account fraud) in an unprincipled manner, they come up with an insane feature idea like this.…
This is why control > salary for me. I would much rather (and do) work at a smaller company making less money, but where I have real input in the company itself. We routinely have clients ask for more tracking data on users and we explain/teach why it is a bad idea. In some way these FB stories help me, because I can point to these articles and ask 'do you want to end up associated with this ?'
That's great when you have the ability to forego potential salary.
It's also why manufactured scarcity (especially in housing) enables people who wish to apply engineering effort in unethical ways.
If 10 engineers are bidding on 5 houses, the 5 highest-paid ones will get it. Any pay raise they get will get dumped in to their house - give them all 100k raises and the house will go up by whatever another 100k a year in mortgage payments gets you (I simplify, but not that much)
Not only that, those 5 highly-paid engineers who got the houses have every incentive to make it illegal to build more.
It's hard to stick to your principles when it means getting kicked out of your home, pulling your kids out of school, your spouse having to move away from their job, etc.
It's not just housing, of course, it's a huge part of it. The engineer with a $750 a month mortgage will have a MUCH easier time saying "fuck off this is evil" than one with a $7500 a month mortgage.
Re: Facebook Asking for Some New Users' Email Passwords
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it fascinating how big tech companies are intent on spending enormous sums of money seeking out the top tech talent in the world. Then rather than listen to them when they voice concerns they try to beat them down into submission. I get that if you worked at a company whose core mission is evil that you just have to accept that when you sign up, but there's no reason facebook needs to be make these active mora…
Top tech talent generally have no idea how businesses make money. So of course you’d ignore them.
I'm not even sure if that is even true about mediocre tech talent, most people have some inkling of how their company makes money or at least how it intends to (some startups may obfuscate this information however, or not actually know).
Tech talent of all sorts generally don't know how the business manages money and what rules might apply to that management however.
on edit: added even, removed extra letter at end.