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25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

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Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#71

Post by raxxorrax »

alkonaut wrote: post #34
flukus wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. They do, their message is usually related to their field of expertise. A good sportsman will act as an example of how to be a good sport, how to conduct yourself when you lose, how to be a good winner, etc. A good OS maintainer will set an example through code and their leadership will show the team what is and…

> They do, their message is usually related to their field of expertise. A good sportsman will act as an example of how to be a good sport, how to conduct yourself when you lose, how to be a good winner, etc. A good OS maintainer will set an example through code and their leadership will show the team what is and isn't acceptable. It's rarely that easy. Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or…

> Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or actively choose not to do so.

Funnily, it would allegedly require me to be active to not accept a code of conduct. I would disagree with that.

These code are nothing new and formerly often called something like netiquette or something. Some guidelines a community agreed upon and could be leveraged for common ground in cases of disagreement.

The difference to modern examples of COCs is certainly that they were mostly not mandated upon users. At that point, they become as interesting to users as terms of services. Somthing not on your mind you pay no attention to.

Since most COCs also include some drivel about strict enforcements, learning processes and other completely unrelated topics, I tend to just passively ignore them.

Many of these are also blatantly lying. What better way to champion inclusivity by banning behaviour deemed inconform? While even underlining that conformity is required? I would require an explaination here.

I wonder why people that tend to argue that everything is political are so keen on my and others conformity? What should I answer to that? Sorry, I cannot comply, I need to champion diversity?

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#72

Post by teekert »

qlk1123 wrote: post #18

> Bob: Anything else you want to comment on, either publicly or otherwise? > Linus: I've never had some "message" that I wanted to spread, so ... It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread, but I can somehow understand this respond. My personal take of this quote can refer to another quote from his TED interview[1]: > I’m an engineer. I’m perfectly happy with all the people who…

I did read about him being philosophical before but it could be that "radical Randists" twisted his words [0]

I read this after I just read Atlas Shrugged and wondered how my convictions fitted into the objectivists' world view. Whether this was the real Linus or not, I liked his view, as I generally do. And it matches his down-to-earth-ness. BTW: Please don't butcher my karma again for mentioning Ayn ;)

[0] https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=6IOkXO2a...

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#73

Post by throwawaylolx »

qlk1123 wrote: post #18

> Bob: Anything else you want to comment on, either publicly or otherwise? > Linus: I've never had some "message" that I wanted to spread, so ... It's a pity that a man with such influence has no message that he wants to spread, but I can somehow understand this respond. My personal take of this quote can refer to another quote from his TED interview[1]: > I’m an engineer. I’m perfectly happy with all the people who…

>While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights, it is just not possible to happen.

And I'm very much happy not everyone uses their influence to turn every speech into a political opinion. If I read a Linus piece, I want to read about Linux, software engineering, git, kernels, operating systems, etc. If he started rambling about democracy and human rights, it would only introduce noise for me.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#74

Post by throwawaylolx »

alkonaut wrote: post #21
oraphalous wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While I wish such leader can speak for values like democracy or human rights... Or maybe people who have no particular expertise in political matters should stop opining so much about them? And maybe we should stop politicising all aspects of culture and existence. There is so much more to life.

There is no feasible way to separate politics from everyday life, and leaving "politics to those who knows about it" isn't really viable. Anyone with a platform whether it is sports, tech, culture should consider what message they are sending. Because there is a message, even from quiet people. "Not politicising" is a political act and statement as well. There is no dodging politics. Saying "I just play football, I l…

>If you have listeners you have a responsibility for what you are saying whether you like it or not.

Yes, and speaking only about things you have expertise on rather than talking about "values like democracy or human rights" is a very much responsbile way to treat and show respect to your audience

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#75

Post by SimplyUnknown »

bch wrote: post #27
adwn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He even punts on a softball question and makes it about himself That's because it was about himself! Bob asked him for his advice. > how about “have fun, exercise and stay healthy and dive in!” That's such an overused, uninspired, undistinguished answer. Why would you ask Linus if that's what you want to hear?

It is - a simplistic throw away I came up with as I typed, and still more valuable than “don’t ask me”. I’m just bemoaning that after 25 years he’s still an antihero.

I'm still more comfortable with an antihero that is down to earth and knows when to shut up like Linus than with a full-time worshipped Hero persona, e.g. Elon Musk.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#77

Post by jaabe »

ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

I don’t think stackoverflow is a problem at all, I think it’s much better to have people ask stupid questions than to call them stupid.

That being said, I do think people owe it to themselves to read the documentation first. I’m extremely rarely in a situation where the official documentation isn’t monumentally better than every other option. There are a few exceptions of course, when the official documentation flat out sucks.

I do think we have a general issue with how we teach CS though. Especially outside the hardcore CS degree, because we’re really not teaching young people computation anymore, we’re teaching them how to produce results. This is especially true for places like Udemy and YouTube, but it’s frankly also true on more UX centric or academy/bachelor level degrees.

I do external examinations on academy levels, and earlier this year I went to a place where they teach associate degrees in CS. Only they opted to build their places as a “gaming education”, so they had a heavy emphasis on Unity. And sure enough, the students were pretty good at unity, but only a handful of them knew how to calculate Big O of a few simple examples and only a single student knew how a computer actually works.

When I did my own freshman year, one of my first tests was to decode a hidden message by altering the contents of a bitmap file using C. That’s pretty useless, sure, but it teaches you a lot of things, including how to read the official documentation for a bitmap, which is a much more useful skill than knowing how to use a certain version of some framework. At least in my opinion.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#78

Post by alkonaut »

raxxorrax wrote: post #71
alkonaut wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They do, their message is usually related to their field of expertise. A good sportsman will act as an example of how to be a good sport, how to conduct yourself when you lose, how to be a good winner, etc. A good OS maintainer will set an example through code and their leadership will show the team what is and isn't acceptable. It's rarely that easy. Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or…

> Suddenly you'll be forced to either accept a code of conduct, or actively choose not to do so. Funnily, it would allegedly require me to be active to not accept a code of conduct. I would disagree with that. These code are nothing new and formerly often called something like netiquette or something. Some guidelines a community agreed upon and could be leveraged for common ground in cases of disagreement. The differ…

> it would allegedly require me to be active to not accept a code of conduct. I would disagree with that.

Once you reach a certain amount of attention, the question will be raised, and at that point not adopting an explicit CoC will be met with questions and seen as an active political stance. I don't know if I think that's fair - but it's the way it is.

> I wonder why people that tend to argue that everything is political are so keen on my and others conformity?

I'm not sure who you mean or which conformity you refer to here.

Re: 25 Years Later: Interview with Linus Torvalds

#80

Post by Shivetya »

ben165 wrote: post #3

>Bob: Is there any advice you'd like to give to young programmers/computer science students? >Linus: I'm actually the worst person to ask. I knew I was interested in math and computers since an early age, and I was largely self-taught until university. And everything I did was fairly self-driven. So I don't understand the problems people face when they say "what should I do?" It's not where I came from at all. This i…

You don't have to visit Stackoverflow, if you are in a regular work environment it is likely you encounter this mentality every day. Heck I have coworkers who won't even ask the question!

Yet this may be a broader issue, an education issue. As in, if we don't teach children to do and instead tell them they deserve or are entitled are we forever hampering their progress?

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