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No one should have to travel in fear

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Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#121

Post by pmoriarty »

komali2 wrote: post #23

Dunno what to do about this. I think TSA is a sham and a waste of my money. I think border control is taking my money and using it to abuse people. I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport. I've written my reps and the president, I call about once a month, but it has no measurable effect. Smarter people than me have done audits on TSA and published them in famous newspapers to…

"I don't think it's ok that I can pay to avoid the poor people line at the airport."

This reminds me of something Abigail Disney, an heiress to the Disney family fortune, was quoted as saying in an article recently posted to HN. She said that she wished she could pass a law against private jets, "because they enable you to get around a certain reality. You don't have to go through an airport terminal, you don't have to interact, you don't have to be patient, you don't have to be uncomfortable. These are the things that remind us we're human."[1][2]

Getting better treatment because you have more power, wealth, or connections is a huge reason for the world being as shitty as it is today.

If the rich and powerful had to go through the same hassles and be treated like the rest of do, things would change for the better mighty quick.

This sort of maltreatment has been commonly perpetrated against foreigners and certain targeted minorities for decades, and mostly no one outside those groups gives a shit (or not enough to do anything about it). But when someone from your own demographic is affected, suddenly people start to take notice, and if someone rich and powerful gets affected it makes the front page.

This reminds me of Martin Niemoller's famous "First they came for the socialists" poem[3], and of how during the 80's some Senator got caught up in a scandal that started because his cellular calls were intercepted by radio, and pretty quickly after that Congress passed laws that forbid commercially available radios from being able to tune in on cellular frequencies or be easily modified to allow them to do so.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19524325

[2] - https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/abigail-disney-has-more-money...

[3] - https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/martin-nie...

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#122

Post by caprese »

andreasgal wrote: post #97
caprese wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd assume that they also revoked Global Entry instead of assuming can we get an answer? OP? ACLU? The author mentioned he has taken flights since then, he should be able to answer if he still gets TSA Pre, nobody's asked yet its just as likely that they literally only took the card from him.

They found the card with my passport. They took the card, and a few days later my status was revoked as well.

Insightful, think one of those travel sites like thepointsguy would rally support for clarity?

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#123

Post by eswat »

smoe wrote: post #80
14 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part I don't get. Surely they realize there are a large portion of people that will avoid that county just on principle that they may be hassled at the border. I can imagine that these policies have cost them millions of dollars. Imagine going to a county and being turned around all because you had an employers laptop you promised not to unlock for anyone. Or how about a personal laptop with naked picture…

Pretty much all Europeans I know working in Latin America that travel home 1-2 a year, avoid flights that go trough US airports even tough it would often be the cheapest options by quite some margin. For me not having to deal with US borders is worth the up to 300 USD difference in flight price. I did it once back in 2008 for a flight from Costa Rica to Switzerland via Miami and was caught completely by surprise that…

I just went through this circus for a 1.5-hour layover. Salt in the wound was CBP having just 1 agent serving Non-US travellers for a 737 that just came from Japan…

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#124

Post by jamiepenney »

jacquesm wrote: post #40
_bxg1 wrote: post #37

Every time an article like this pops up (seems like a couple times a month now), I'm validated in my decision to donate monthly to the ACLU. They're always mentioned as fighting this stuff on the front lines.

Every time an article like this pops up I am validated in my decision to no longer travel to the United States.

Me too. We've considered holidays that would take us close to the states (Canada and the Caribbean) but there are very few flights direct from New Zealand and they're crazy expensive.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#125

Post by Marsymars »

mediocrejoker wrote: post #69
techslave wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if his employer is apple then he is fine to unlock. all such employers require you to follow border agent instructions. that said he may be in violation of a policy not to travel with proprietary info

> that said he may be in violation of a policy not to travel with proprietary info How is this policy supposed to work? Seems like it would a huge pain point for any sort of travel.

My company issues travel-specific devices that are only used for web-based services via VPN.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#127

Post by scarlac »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #8
Mizza wrote: post #4

Is this something we need to petition congress to fix? Do CBP agents have the right to search the electronic devices of US citizens without a search warrant or not?

> Is this something we need to petition congress to fix? Do CBP agents have the right to search the electronic devices of US citizens without a search warrant or not? IIRC, if you're a citizen, they have the power to seize your devices (and anything else you have, for that matter) and temporarily delay/detain you, but not to force you to unlock anything. They can't deny you entry. If you're not a citizen, then they c…

> having your travel plans ruined.

Or in the case for a lot of workers on visas in the valley: Lose your job. They deny entry, put you on a blacklist that guarantees the same treatment every time you try to re-enter. You either comply or you are effectively banned from the country.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#128

Post by hopler »

geofft wrote: post #83
maximilianroos wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to get out of the car. CBP only have power to stop you to ascertain the citizenship of the passengers. They need reasonable suspicion to further detain you, or probable cause to search you or your car. You can consent to the search, but you don't need to. If you refuse consent and they lack probable cause, the evidence would be suppressed. For more details: https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrants-rights/i…

On a side note, it's probably a problem that people are told "Can you get out of the car so we can have this dog search it" and hear "You must get out of the car so we can have this dog search it," but my understanding is the courts put a lot of weight on that distinction.

The courts have ruled that if someone makes a request under threat of physical violence or death, it is impossible to consent unless of course the person making the threat in law enforcement.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#129

Post by hopler »

_bxg1 wrote: post #33

Border Patrol has become the KGB. Hopefully this will reach a boiling point soon and they'll harass someone important enough to get the gears actually moving toward ending this madness.

No. If they find someone important they just let him go with an apology. Penn Jillette fought them years ago and refused their apology; it went nowhere.

Re: No one should have to travel in fear

#130

Post by hopler »

mindfulhack wrote: post #98

This needs to be challenged to the Supreme Court level whereby it is deemed unconstitutional for TSA agents to detain and seize people and their possessions without actual demonstrable cause relating to national security and/or the spirit of the law(s) governing their policies and procedure. If overly broad legislation is being abused against the spirit and intention of it, then the court needs to step in to legally…

Won't happen until Donald Trump's justices retire.
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