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The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

theintercept.com

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Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#61

Post by JustSomeNobody »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #60
mywittyname wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we all agree that they shouldn't do this to American citizens. The problem is we can't isolate their capabilities to just foreign persons.

As a "foreign person", I'd rather like for no organization to come and record everything I do just because I wasn't born in a specific place. Ironically though, the average American citizen is probably under more CIA surveillance than the average foreign person such as myself.

I'd rather we didn't either. If we trust you enough to let you visit, work, whatever, then we should treat you respectfully.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#62

Post by friedman23 »

yongjik wrote: post #52
friedman23 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What are the Koreans or the Russians or anyone else going to do to me? Really? You dont understand how Chinese, N. Koreans, and Russian governments can use an American citizens data to blackmail them? Please point me to one instance of the US government blackmailing one of its own citizens or point me to an action that is comparably damaging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO > COINTELPRO (1956–1971) was a series of covert, and at times illegal,[1][2] projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93King_suicide_lette... > The letter does not specify precisely what action it is urg…

How about in the last 50 years

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#63

Post by nickelcitymario »

marssaxman wrote: post #40
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

I think you all must have a different relationship with your government in Canada than US citizens do. None of these agencies are "on my own team". They are all adversaries. I feel far more threatened by US government hacking precisely because I live inside US jurisdiction. If we were to have a difference of opinions, and they were to snoop around in my data and decide they didn't like what they found, well, I'm sitt…

I suspect we have a similar % of Canadians who distrust the government as Americans do. I'd count myself among them.

However:

1) I maintain that the only reason to fund an intelligence agency is to expect them to perform intelligence activities, and today that requires being the best in the world at black hat infosec.

2) I mistrust my government less than I mistrust yours or Russsia's, because at least my government depends on me for votes and taxes and general compliance with laws.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#64

Post by mlindner »

CalChris wrote: post #14

How is pen testing of iPhones stealing Apple's secrets? Does Apple know these holes are there and they're keeping them secret? I'll grant you that if the CIA broke into Apple and stole keys, that would stealing along with breaking and entering or the cybercrime equivalent. But that's not what the article says.

Yeah this article is a bit ridiculous. Pen testing is what security researchers do. It's a proverbial mountain out of a molehill.

The Intercept longs for its Snowden glory days.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#65

Post by Bud »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #31
marnett wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American revolution was started because citizens did not want the government in their homes.

I don't think that's historically accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the battle cry of the revolution "no taxation without representation"? It wasn't about privacy, it was about wanting to be more than just a backwater colony.

There was this document called the "Declaration of Independence" that I believe you might find useful in clarifying the answer(s) to your question.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#66

Post by kurthr »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #17
kurthr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CIA is spying on your phone so that the Russians and Chinese don't have to?? Really, you think CIA OpSec is that good... as in so hard to crack that it's worth spending $100 billions (in Rubles and Yuan) to do it some other way? Maybe some political doofus thinks that, but technically savvy folks should know better. Nope, if you create a weapon you better be prepared for your enemy to use it against you.

Not that I think anything I say will convince you to my thinking, but I didn't say "the CIA is spying on your phone so that the Russians and Chinese don't have to". I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. In an ideal world, no one can hack my phone. This is why I support Apple and Google and Microsoft and all the others doing their very best to keep my devices as secure as possible. In the worst-possible wor…

If I thought CIA/NSA hacking was truly white-hat to increase the security of Apple devices, then I would agree. However, 3DES seems to be one of the last times that actual info-sec as opposed to spying (on local citizens) with questionable legal standing (in the US) was the purpose.

Sadly, the omniscient and incorruptable rep of the NSA/CIA and associated TLA have been significantly tarnished by Snowden and the current external political interference. This is a crisis, because there are likely people in powerful positions of those orgamizations who do not have their countries interests at heart. Whatever ideology (white nationalist or communist) or external subversion they are not being adequately policed in the current situation.

I would prefer they spend their efforts spying externally rather than internally and keeping everyone's private information safe. For example focus on vulns in Huawei 5G base stations or foreign anti-virus installations instead. I think that's safer for us tax payers. Heck, use the social credit system for your own ends, as they did with Tindr.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#67

Post by nickelcitymario »

kurthr wrote: post #66
nickelcitymario wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I think anything I say will convince you to my thinking, but I didn't say "the CIA is spying on your phone so that the Russians and Chinese don't have to". I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. In an ideal world, no one can hack my phone. This is why I support Apple and Google and Microsoft and all the others doing their very best to keep my devices as secure as possible. In the worst-possible wor…

If I thought CIA/NSA hacking was truly white-hat to increase the security of Apple devices, then I would agree. However, 3DES seems to be one of the last times that actual info-sec as opposed to spying (on local citizens) with questionable legal standing (in the US) was the purpose. Sadly, the omniscient and incorruptable rep of the NSA/CIA and associated TLA have been significantly tarnished by Snowden and the curre…

Apple products are used globally, so even if they do restrict their spying efforts externally, the ability to hack Apple products is aligned with those efforts.

They should also absolutely be looking for vulnerabilities in Huawei products. They should be looking for them in any product with significant market share. But there's no reason to think they can't do both.

All that aside: Theres a social credit system with Tinder? Am I reading you correct? Tell me more! That sounds way more interesting...

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#69

Post by DaggerDagger »

whatshisface wrote: post #7
nickelcitymario wrote: post #5

Nothing in this article is surprising. I mean, honestly, if you don't think the CIA is actively trying to gain access to your devices, WTF do you think they do all day? I'd be more concerned if the intelligence agencies of the world WEREN'T doing this. It's their purpose. It's what we pay them for with our taxes. Of course we should also always root for tech companies to stay one step ahead. But infosec is an arms ra…

> WTF do you think they do all day? One would hope that they were trying to gain access to someone else's devices, as opposed to turning the guns towards their own citizens and economy. If a soldier showed up at my door and pointed their gun at me, my reaction wouldn't be "of course you're doing that, your job is to point guns."

Let's be real. It wouldn't be that surprising given how the world actually works. Assuming you aren't an oligarch.

Re: The CIA Campaign to Steal Apple's Secrets (2015)

#70

Post by village-idiot »

OrgNet wrote: post #59
pytyper2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you redefine terrorism to remove the dependence on violence, unless I missed something in the article? I don't personally believe that trying to find security flaws terrorism.

they aren't just trying to find security flaws... they probably buy/find most of them so that they can use them (it might scare and/or terrorize some people to be watched and controlled at all times)

That still wouldn’t be terrorism. It would be something else, potentially harassment or general authoritarianism.
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