I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me • Hacker News Board

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#101

Post by Zak » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

tiraniddo wrote: post #92

jcranmer wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame Google and Microsoft. They were the people who created the specification, and pushed for it, when Netflix came begging for a solution to their DRM conundrum. Even if the W3C hadn't approved it, that's two of the big four browser vendors who are committing to implementing it anyways, which is enough to guarantee a de facto standard anyways.

No, blame the movie studios, record labels etc. They're the one which require asinine DRM support for web browsers. Google/Microsoft/Apple/Adobe want to support media content, but to do so requires towing the line with the media companies otherwise they refuse to license the content (at least in HD+). Having worked with various DRM teams I know that they have to treat their code as if its the most secret code in the…

The weird thing about this is I can find a high-quality torrent for anything on Netflix in under a minute.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#102

Post by AnthonyMouse » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #37

mmastrac wrote: post #12

The blame for this sits squarely on the w3c for their efforts in trying to replace flash by letting the content companies dictate standards for encrypted playback. If they had held fast, we could have forced the companies to do their key management in something like WebAssembly and avoided this gatekeeping mess.

It was never gonna happen; as soon as Intel introduced SGX, any DRM-producing company that wasn’t taking advantage of it would be seen as failing their shareholders. Even if Flash had died on schedule without browsers offering a native browser-DOM DRMed-content API, DRMed-content producers would just have jumped to another tech the DRM vendors sold them. My guess is that, if browser vendors wouldn’t have played ball,…

How is that "threat" a problem? That sounds like an Old Microsoft objection to cross-platform code, but the web is already cross-platform code, so that doesn't make any sense.

And if the browser vendors really didn't like it for unknown reasons then they could have just stopped supporting Java in the browser, as has largely already happened for various other reasons.

This is one of those "we all must hang together or we shall all hang separately" situations, and they apparently decided they'd prefer to hang separately.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#103

Post by kowdermeister » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:26 PM UTC

avmich wrote: post #73

jakub_g wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chromium browser is open source. Chrome browser (which is based on Chromium, plus various Google proprietary features on top of it) is not.

And Chromium can't play videos?

Not ones with DRM which is the point of the entire discussion.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#104

Post by DCKing » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

Out of curiosity, is there any reusable alternative for Google's Widevine module? It seems both Chromium and Firefox use this, and all other open source browsers are based on them. Safari and Internet Explorer DRM would be tied to specific platforms and also not reusable, I'm guessing?

How (re)usable is Adobe's Primetime DRM for something like this? Primetime was removed from Firefox in version 52 (pre-Quantum) in early 2017 [1]. Are there any others?

[1]: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/01/10/firefox-52-adobe-primetime...

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#105

Post by sigi45 » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

Sooo the author builds a browser with the assumption that he just can use DRM stuff?

Thats an assumption i would say is not given. If you build something like this and you expect to support DRM, do your homework on DRM before you start building stuff around it.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#106

Post by suprfsat » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:27 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #52

monetus wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think most users even know what drm is, or that it's being run?

I tell it to my acquaintances all the time. Nearly all of them are not interested in this information.

They could be your friends if you'd stop.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#107

Post by Arnt » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:29 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #12

The blame for this sits squarely on the w3c for their efforts in trying to replace flash by letting the content companies dictate standards for encrypted playback. If they had held fast, we could have forced the companies to do their key management in something like WebAssembly and avoided this gatekeeping mess.

I don't suppose you remember, but they did their key management in native code plugins 10-15 years ago. Silverlight and Flash both had DRM capability, IIRC. I've worked with that and it was no joy at all.

Without W3C DRM they would have kept those plugins alive instead of deprecating them. I see no reason why they'd have migrated to webasm, webasm wouldn't provide the know-thy-customer aspect the DRM people want.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#108

Post by holoduke » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

mangecoeur wrote: post #44

If only we'd been warned about the risks of handing over so much influence to Google by basing everything around their browser... >-<

And don't forget mobile.

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#109

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

ohithereyou wrote: post #21

This is why I break DRM when I can, treating its presence as advisory at best. From a balancing test standpoint, if you want a technological solution to people copying your work then I think you should not be allowed to claim copyright protection of your work. Pick a legal or technical solution to unauthorized copying, not both.

[deleted]

Re: I tried creating a web browser, and Google blocked me

#110

Post by noodlesUK » Tue, Apr 02, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC

All this content having DRM drives me totally crazy. I don’t have a windows machine or games console where I live that can output 4K, but I have a laptop and desktop running various Linux distros that both have very nice 4K monitors. It appears that the only places where I can get content that will play at native quality on them is through the usual illegitimate sources or through breaking BD drm. Anyone who says that this (Netflix, Amazon etc) is a smooth process doesn’t care about quality (or heaven forbid offline access). I’m sure Netflix likes the free reduction in bandwith for desktop users though...