Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

citylab.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 334 posts

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#161

Post by bobthepanda »

jackcosgrove wrote: post #90

The main reason US cities rely on automobiles is because the "job watershed" of a private automobile exceeds the job watershed of train systems everywhere in the US, even New York City. The job watershed is the number of jobs within commuting distance, whatever your tolerance for a commute is, given a transportation modality. In some cities the automobile job watershed is 100x larger than the transit job watershed. T…

The reason of automobile dominance is more that unlike other countries, we went all in on highways and just actively dismantled existing rail infrastructure. And then to salt the wounds, our parking requirements are so high that in many suburbs I've been in, the ten minute walk from the front door of Walmart to the bus stop is ridiculous.

Rail does better when congestion is high and density is high, but in most of America high density or even medium density is either illegal to build or requires so much parking because of zoning that it does not pencil out financially.

The quickest thing America could do to encourage dense construction is to stop the requirement of parking with new construction. Developers do not need to be told a minimum to build, they will build what the market will bear because if they underpark their buildings no one will rent units or office space.

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#162

Post by shereadsthenews »

throwawayjava wrote: post #151
jcranmer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where HSR excels is in being able to service several city pairs on a single line. The Northeast Corridor is a great example: you can have a single train service all pairs of {Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC, Boston} at negligible extra expense in time and money. Thus you can add in stops like Providence, which don't generate all that many trips on their own, simply because it is literally on the way to where…

> Who wants to go between Columbus and Indianapolis--the highway between the two cities is pretty empty. This strikes me as the main problem with the mindset around HSR. Consider e.g., Madison, Wisconsin. Milwaukee would have a much more vibrant and dynamic ecosystem if undergrads/PhD students/professors could get to/from meetings with investors in MLK/CHI and be back for afternoon classes. Or continue internships/me…

The governor of Wisconsin defunded the railroad literally to own the libs. I got downvoted elsewhere in the thread for saying so but “owning the libs” by sabotaging their own state’s transportation system has been the centerpiece of many recent state and federal policies.

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#163

Post by jpatokal »

jakecopp wrote: post #157
jackcosgrove wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but US real estate rents and prices are low by developed economy standards. Here is a link: http://www.newgeography.com/content/006201-15th-annual-demog... "The most affordable major housing markets are in the United States, with a moderately unaffordable Median Multiple of 3.9, followed by Canada (4.3) and Singapore (4.6). Ireland and the United Kingdom both have M…

Heads up, Sydney's median multiple was 13 at the end of 2017! I think it's come down a bit but not that much. We do have a pretty awesome train network though, I don't own a car and it's wonderful. Have a look at this graph for different world cities: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/australian-housing-un... [Edit: fixed link]

Your link goes back to this page?

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#164

Post by undersuit »

seattle_spring wrote: post #120
undersuit wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your feet?

Can you elaborate on how my feet would help get me to remote trailheads? Even if buses took me directly to the dirt roads, it's often another 20 miles to the trailhead itself. Are you suggesting I take unreliable 3 to 5 hours one way buses and then walk for 6 hours on a dirt road just to get to a good mountain climb?

Yes. Or you could just keep using personal vehicles and complain about the lack of alternatives.

The only issue I have with your plan is that while walking on that dirt road I'd have to deal with people that don't care for pedestrians using their roads meant for vehicles.

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#165

Post by [deleted] »

stevejb wrote: post #159
ceejayoz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let me know when we invent something that can affordably and reliably take me to the base of mountains for hikes (real hikes, not shitty crowded garbage like Lake 22 or Mount Tam). If you visit Switzerland, you'll find this is an extremely solved problem.

http://www.travelersdigest.com/7381-how-big-is-switzerland-i... Getting to a particular mountain is solved. This isn't a comparison of some tourist experience in a country the size of the Dallas-Fort Worth metro area. Its about the freedom to explore our great national parks, etc.

[deleted]

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#166

Post by dang »

mamon wrote: post #4

Once again, Americans are "discovering" things other civilized countries knew and implemented for a long time :)

Nationalistic swipes will get you banned here, regardless of which nation you're going after, so please don't. Among other things, it breaks the site guideline against flamebait.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#167

Post by dang »

esoterae wrote: post #25
ams6110 wrote: post #3

Cycling is cleaner than any of them. So what?

Whataboutism is escapist, used to sow discord, and as such is a method of division commonly used to attempt the derailment [ha] of an otherwise useful discussion.

Please don't use that trope on HN. It never leads anywhere interesting.

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#168

Post by msla »

saagarjha wrote: post #60
mutt2016 wrote: post #58

Trains are a messy, loud and dangerous way of moving stuff. But yes, it's fuel efficient. But so fucking dangerous and primitive in so many ways. Rail needs a lot of technology, and then it will be amazing. I don't think it's thsy far off.

> Trains are a messy, loud and dangerous way of moving stuff. How so?

> How so?

You've obviously never lived next to a railroad.

Trains can't stop. I mean, they can eventually stop, but when it comes down to it, the train is not stopping.

Trains are relatively clean compared to trucks, but they still burn crap and spew ash and smoke.

Trains are loud. That's... I really can't say it any other way. Trains. Are. Loud.

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#169

Post by [deleted] »

chungleong wrote: post #160
bronco21016 wrote: post #62

I’ve visited Europe many times and I do like how the region is so easily accessible without a car, largely because of trains, but there are many more factors outside of just having trains. European cities are far more walkable and accessible without a car. For decades the US has just not been built up in this way so just dropping trains in doesn’t suddenly make them preferred and thus viable. The reason people drive…

I normally live in Europe. At the moment I'm in Baltimore. The city's downtown area (around the inner harbor) is perfectly walkable. Nearby DC is also perfectly walkable, while driving is a nightmare. These two cities should be well connected by rail but they're not. People would drive to a parking lot beside a metro station and get into the city that way. Two cities can only be linked effectively by rail when there…

[deleted]

Re: Trains are more efficient and less polluting than other transportation modes

#170

Post by jakecopp »

jpatokal wrote: post #163
jakecopp wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heads up, Sydney's median multiple was 13 at the end of 2017! I think it's come down a bit but not that much. We do have a pretty awesome train network though, I don't own a car and it's wonderful. Have a look at this graph for different world cities: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-22/australian-housing-un... [Edit: fixed link]

Your link goes back to this page?

Oops pasted the wrong link, too much coffee. Thanks.
Post reply on HN