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San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

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Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#131
post #85
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has an impact on your behavior in public no matter if the camera is on or off, because you cannot be sure.

Not to sound moralistic but if yiu wouldn’t do it while being recorded, why would you do it in public at all?

This assumes that your morals are the same as whoever is behind the camera. You don't know that, which compromises the integrity of any moral value knowledge of being watched would have given.

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could work great mounted to a drone, to operate without being tracked by the remaining surveillance cameras. The problem is that the stakes are quite high, and a gradually creeping occupation doesn't lend itself to a flashpoint of popular opinion saying enough is enough. This might be a great nonmurder application for an assassination-market style thing though.

You could begin in dense districts to have a more pronounced reaction.

So, you don't do that... You start in the burbs. Out on the periphery. "Huh ... camera 20179 doesn't work. Put in a trouble ticket." Trouble ticket goes to the bottom of the stack. Too far away for anyone to bother driving too. Eventually they see a pile of these at the bottom of the stack. If you're lucky, they decide to take a pass on option years for the project because they massively under-budgeted the maintenance side of the contract.

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#134
post #41

It's just a matter of time until we have country-wide full surveillance. It will be the perfect tool for anyone who wants to create a dictatorship. The thought police and the telescreens in 1984 will look primitive and weak in comparison. I think there is no way around it. Add to that drones to keep the population under control and there is huge danger we'll have a pretty bleak future.

Hahaha. You already have it. Covert interception. FAANG. Snowden "blew the whistle" on only a tiny fraction. You already exceeded 1984's monitoring.

Dictatorship forms okay without it.

More overt surveillance is a civil maintainer. Taiwan has camera surveillance everywhere and solves above 90% crime.

It used to surprise me how in denial people can be about their own localities' surveillance. Now I think that makes sense as a consequence of the surveillance mostly being covert.

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#135
post #41

It's just a matter of time until we have country-wide full surveillance. It will be the perfect tool for anyone who wants to create a dictatorship. The thought police and the telescreens in 1984 will look primitive and weak in comparison. I think there is no way around it. Add to that drones to keep the population under control and there is huge danger we'll have a pretty bleak future.

Honestly, we need to discuss how to stop it. Everyone goes around trading opinions and complaining, but this is an entrepreneurship community. We need to talk about solutions.

Could a startup make a dent?

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#136
post #41

It's just a matter of time until we have country-wide full surveillance. It will be the perfect tool for anyone who wants to create a dictatorship. The thought police and the telescreens in 1984 will look primitive and weak in comparison. I think there is no way around it. Add to that drones to keep the population under control and there is huge danger we'll have a pretty bleak future.

Under control from what? Committing crimes, breaking into homes, shooting people dead, raping women going out for a jog, planning terrorist activity? I welcome it.

Define 'crimes' is the issue. Once it is in place, it only takes a slight change to the law, or a Government acting extra-judicially, to become a problem.

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#137
post #41

It's just a matter of time until we have country-wide full surveillance. It will be the perfect tool for anyone who wants to create a dictatorship. The thought police and the telescreens in 1984 will look primitive and weak in comparison. I think there is no way around it. Add to that drones to keep the population under control and there is huge danger we'll have a pretty bleak future.

Honestly, we need to discuss how to stop it. Everyone goes around trading opinions and complaining, but this is an entrepreneurship community. We need to talk about solutions. Could a startup make a dent?

No. Surveillance is something that easily sold with "think of the children" or under the pretense of national security, most people don't understand or comprehend the issue to care; It is a fight for public opinion and educating them of the risk, but it is not a profitable venture nor an easy one when big brother can shut you up before you can finish your breakfast.

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#138
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also gives tech workers unprecedented abilities to fight it. Software engineers need to take social responsibility for what they create.

Agreed. The narrative is frequently, "Tech company X's CEO was running secret, morally-questionable project. Rest of the company's engineers upset to find out about it." So far that dissatisfaction has been mostly inert, unfortunately. But I like to think that the typical engineer's morals haven't been as corroded by money as the typical CEO, and that we'll eventually reach a breaking point where things will get so b…

Engineers, like almost all employees, have to work for a living and will build whatever they have to build. Jobs are not easily replaceable for them to be able to take a stand. This means that even highly skilled and highly specialized engineers can't afford to have a problem working on censorship and surveillance tech, they probably find it exciting given all that cutting edge high performance packet processing or massive neural networks for face recognition. On top of that a bit of propaganda always helps to justify all this inhumane stuff, just like it helps to push lots of people to join the military. So, my point is, it can't come from individual employees taking responsibility, it doesn't work like that at all. Organized efforts won't stop any of it either, even if it succeed in one country, there are too many countries, some much more oppressive and brain washy than the others and make it practically impossible to have an influence.

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#139
post #41

It's just a matter of time until we have country-wide full surveillance. It will be the perfect tool for anyone who wants to create a dictatorship. The thought police and the telescreens in 1984 will look primitive and weak in comparison. I think there is no way around it. Add to that drones to keep the population under control and there is huge danger we'll have a pretty bleak future.

Honestly, we need to discuss how to stop it. Everyone goes around trading opinions and complaining, but this is an entrepreneurship community. We need to talk about solutions. Could a startup make a dent?

Entrepreneurs need to rediscover collective action. Not everything can be solved by the so-called free market.

Re: San Diego Implemented City-Wide Streetlight Surveillance

#140
post #43

This is what so sad about tech, it gives those in power unprecedented abilities to control the population. Essentially heading back to slavery through technology with no way out for the slaves anymore.

It also gives tech workers unprecedented abilities to fight it. Software engineers need to take social responsibility for what they create.

Exactly. The people directly designing and coding these surveillance systems are: other software developers! Our peers in the profession. Many of whom probably read (and even post to) HN. If you know someone working on such a system and you disagree ethically, it’s kind of your business to get in their face and challenge them on it. And if you are such a person: The tech hiring market is still pretty strong and robust. There are thousands of other projects out there for you that don’t involve mass-surveilling innocent people. You have options!

I’ve quit jobs in the past over ethical concerns with the project. It is a valid reason, and it just takes courage.

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