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Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

cakeplate.posterous.com

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Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#21

Post by qeorge »

ConceptDog wrote: post #2

'fast' and 'CakePHP' shouldn't be used in the same sentence. Cake is great for RAD (Rapid Application Development) but the framework itself is massively bloated to almost the same level as a full CMS. You'll get to market faster, but you'll also be planning a rewrite or migration sooner should you enjoy some degree of success.

I'll bite. I write CakePHP apps for my clients, and I've heard this "cake is slow" meme before. Never been a problem for us, and we've shipped a lot of apps.

In almost all cases, the benchmark was done with no caching. I don't know who launches web apps with no caching, but they shouldn't be doing benchmarks.

I don't concede that Cake is slow for any meaningful definition, but as a matter of point - I'll trade faster developers for a couple CPU cycles any day of the week.

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#22

Post by josegonzalez »

sunny36 wrote: post #18
garbowza wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CakePHP comes with that out of the box. You can use the built-in Auth component for registration and user management, and the "Bake" tools will give you the option of creating admin functions, similar to Django's.

I use CakePHP (actually forced to). You can't compare the bake tools with Django admin. The UI of Django admin is usable in fact it's actually nice. I've had lot's of clients who like it. But the generated CSS by the bake tools is non-usable. I usually end up having to write the views for admin when using CakePHP compared to not having to do anything much when using Django.

Unfortunately, bake's default skeleton is indeed pretty lame, but it is possible to replace this with other skeletons (https://github.com/josegonzalez/app_skellington for example, which does auth etc.)

And Django Admin? I've since stopped my work on app_skellington in order to work on https://github.com/josegonzalez/cake_admin. It isn't complete, not by a long shot, and php's syntax makes it difficult to use a DSL without going outside the language into something like yaml files, but it will do.

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#23

Post by monkeyboy »

sunny36 wrote: post #18
garbowza wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CakePHP comes with that out of the box. You can use the built-in Auth component for registration and user management, and the "Bake" tools will give you the option of creating admin functions, similar to Django's.

I use CakePHP (actually forced to). You can't compare the bake tools with Django admin. The UI of Django admin is usable in fact it's actually nice. I've had lot's of clients who like it. But the generated CSS by the bake tools is non-usable. I usually end up having to write the views for admin when using CakePHP compared to not having to do anything much when using Django.

I actually like the bake tools better than Django admin. The problem with Django admin for me is that the skeleton is just "magic." By that I mean I often want to go in and customize the admin interfaces and forms, but Django makes it hard to do that. Bake actually produces real MVC files, which I can then customize to my liking.

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#24

Post by josegonzalez »

You might want to update your copy to state that you are using the 1.3.6 version of CakePHP, and not the 1.3.3 version.

As well, Bitly and Tinyurl would be better served as Behaviors or Datasources, but that's a separate discussion altogether.

Good job otherwise.

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#25

Post by GBond »

noodle wrote: post #17
DanHulton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider Kohana, then, which forked off from CodeIgniter years ago and learned from the many mistakes CI made (most notably being a complete inability to adapt), and was designed with PHP 5 in mind from day one.

i considered it in the past, and i might make the switch with all the internal crap going on with CI. but my biggest current project is CI-based and making the conversion would be...tough. plus, their docs suck.

Can you expand on "all the internal crap going on with CI"? I'm building with CI for a project so I'm curious.

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#26

Post by garbowza »

josegonzalez wrote: post #24

You might want to update your copy to state that you are using the 1.3.6 version of CakePHP, and not the 1.3.3 version. As well, Bitly and Tinyurl would be better served as Behaviors or Datasources, but that's a separate discussion altogether. Good job otherwise.

Good catch! Fixed.

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#27

Post by noodle »

GBond wrote: post #25
noodle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i considered it in the past, and i might make the switch with all the internal crap going on with CI. but my biggest current project is CI-based and making the conversion would be...tough. plus, their docs suck.

Can you expand on "all the internal crap going on with CI"? I'm building with CI for a project so I'm curious.

http://adamgriffiths.co.uk/blog/codeigniter/an_open_letter_t...

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#28

Post by josephmoniz »

powertower wrote: post #14
mattcurry wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These benchmarks are from two years ago. The version of Cake used isn't even a stable release (1.2 RC1). Either way 1.3 has replaced 1.2 and is plenty fast for 99.99999% of sites.

Another benchmark source... http://www.yiiframework.com/performance/ Take with a grain of salt.

This benchmark seems to be either out dated or somewhat falsified. I ran the same benchmark on my system and CI out performed Yii ( https://github.com/JosephMoniz/BlueElephant/blob/master/docs... ) . The main point though is that with or without caching (APC) CakePHP is the slowest by an order of magnitude.

EDIT: yeah, pretty sure the original Yii benchmark is dated as the graph has older versions while the phpmark repo has slighlty newer ones ( http://code.google.com/p/phpmark/source/browse/#svn/trunk )

Re: Launching CakePlate, a boilerplate CakePHP distribution for fast web apps

#30

Post by [deleted] »

GBond wrote: post #25
noodle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i considered it in the past, and i might make the switch with all the internal crap going on with CI. but my biggest current project is CI-based and making the conversion would be...tough. plus, their docs suck.

Can you expand on "all the internal crap going on with CI"? I'm building with CI for a project so I'm curious.

[deleted]
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