The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs • Hacker News Board

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#91

Post by DanBC » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #86

QualityReboot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know, because it sound like nobody told you... you really need to taper those drugs or the chance of seizure goes way up. It's not like other addictions, you can't just cold turkey benzos or alcohol if you've been using them daily for a long time. It can literally kill you, and you won't see it coming. There's various schedules on how to do it, here's a good starting point: https://www.aafp.org/afp/2017/1…

I had to explain tapering to my psychiatrist, who also was very skeptical of the "brain zaps" I reported feeling when I went off Paxil. I ended up moving my prescriptions to my GP and managing the tapers myself, because the doctors don't really know how to do it.

Brain zaps are unpleasant. They are nothing like the withdrawals from benzos, which can include seizures which can be life-threatening.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#92

Post by potta_coffee » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

captainredbeard wrote: post #82

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #10

I am on Klonopin and Remeron. My diagnosis is anxiety, but really it's insomnia. I had a horrible, multiple-year episode of insomnia that started in my early thirties. For about three years I got maybe one night a week of decent sleep. I was mentally and emotionally out of it; I'm kind of surprised I still have a job after that. A few years in, I found a psychiatrist who was willing to experiment and we discovered th…

For the sleep, try wearing blue light blocking glasses all day until you are able to sleep reliably. It sounds ridiculous but I read a study in the Journal of Bipolar Disorder a few years back (can't find a link right now) about this. I've given a pair to a friend suffering from a multi-day manic phase (with zero sleep) and it stopped it dead in the tracks, within six hours in this case. It makes you look a bit dorky…

Thanks, you prompted me to buy some glasses and try this.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#93

Post by DanBC » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #16

fwip wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's under-discussed. Part of the reason seems to be that people have such variable reactions. I have friends who literally had to quarter their pills while tapering off of them, and I also have friends who were able to stop taking them cold turkey and felt fine in less than a week.

>I agree that it's under-discussed. I think the reason its under-discussed is that there is a collective group-think which functions as overwhelming (to the individual) reinforcement: "there is no other way available to solve this problem than the mass sale and consumption of pharmaceuticals". The moment someone proposes a non-pharmaceutical (read: profitable) solution to many of these ills, they are shut down by the…

> to a very Western

You meant American, because in the UK the front-line treatment for depression or anxiety is a talking therapy, coupled with social prescribing (which to be fair has variable availability), and then medication if indicated.

OP talks about a long term prescription for clonazepam, and current advice is that long term benzo use must be avoided.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#94

Post by DanBC » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:49 PM UTC

tcj_phx wrote: post #61

clydethefrog wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high mention of Abilify in the article and your comment makes me worried. I am currently on Abilify (10mg) for antipsychotic reasons. It seemed to be a "new generation" safer antipsychotic. Reading the Wikipedia article about it makes it sound a lot of research is unclear about the side effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aripiprazole

Abilify is one of the least-bad of its class. But it doesn't address the metabolic problem that is at the root of psychosis. Coconut oil, niacin/niacinamide (vitamin B-3), and other pro-metabolic interventions help get at the actual causes behind the diagnosis. Coconut oil is helpful because it can be directly metabolized by the cells, whereas longer saturated fats have to be ... processed somehow before they can be…

You can't cure psychosis with fucking coconut oil. PLease stop peddling this dangerous advice.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#95

Post by mastox » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:49 PM UTC

martinald wrote: post #79

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most chronic insomnia is psychosomatic. The problem with calling it "psychosomatic" is that people who haven't experienced it think that means it isn't real. But it is. You can't just talk yourself out of psychosomatic illnesses. They're as real as any other kind. You need some sort of medical care to manage or overcome them, just as much as if you had a broken leg. In my case, I see my psychiatrist once a quarter fo…

I dont mean to be alarmist but taking benzodiazepines for an extended time (anything more than 2 weeks is probably a bad idea, especially with strong ones such as clonazepam), is definitely not a great idea. There is a very prolonged withdrawal syndrome, with many not reporting feeling completely better after many years in cases of high dose long term usage. You may take the view that you can always take them, but ci…

I had no idea the impact of benzo's but my first thought after reading the OP and experiencing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) myself, "Isn't that just a band-aid, not really treating the 'wound'".

I guess I'm just agreeing with you from a philosophical point of view.

For what's its worth for anyone (including OP) reading this, I found success in studying philosophy as a poor man's CBT especially Existentialism. I think an argument could be made that these two things are the same thing but represented slightly different language and with slightly different goals.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#96

Post by DanBC » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

KerryJones wrote: post #60

JamesBarney wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Medication cannot make people happy. (Well at least not the legal drugs, and the illegal ones won't work long term!) They can only create the possibility for happiness for those who need some extra help. There are phase 3 randomized controlled trials that prove differently.

And they are? Your statement is completely anecdotal and carries no weight without the references.

> Your statement is completely anecdotal and carries no weight without the references.

I don't see you asking other people to reference the stuff they're coming out with.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#97

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

mmjaa wrote: post #89

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit concerned about a figure it out yourself approach to this sort of thing - it can be very hard for someone who is cognitively compromised to make an objectively good choice. Also it can be hard to make an actual good choice when you don't have all the right education - the pro-plague crowd honestly think they are making the correct choice based upon their consideration of all the alternatives.

>it can be very hard for someone who is cognitively compromised to make an objectively good choice Accepting ones own personal responsibility is a requirement for a healthy mental condition; leaving the responsibility for ones mental health to other agencies and denying ones own agency - well, this is the very definition of mentally un-well. Educate yourself before you fall into this scenario, is what I'm saying. Sur…

How do you suggest approaching educating yourself, if you innately distrust the best source of knowledge we have in regards to mental illness? If we don't have a handle on mental illness, what education can be gained? How can someone whose not educated in any of them weigh the pros and cons of CBT vs EMDR? And then we have the whole gamut of the absolutely pseudoscientific mental health world, of crystals, and demons, and just needing more vitamin d. I don't believe one approach is not as good as another.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#98

Post by mastox » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #76

mmjaa wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many, many alternatives to a life of addiction. My only point is, don't just blindly accept pharmaceutical dependence without at least considering the alternatives. Pharmaceutical addiction is no benign thing - addiction and dependency is a key factor in the profit motives of the military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex. Before you fall for their traps, be sure you've considered the alternative.

I'm a bit concerned about a figure it out yourself approach to this sort of thing - it can be very hard for someone who is cognitively compromised to make an objectively good choice. Also it can be hard to make an actual good choice when you don't have all the right education - the pro-plague crowd honestly think they are making the correct choice based upon their consideration of all the alternatives.

I don't know if it was the intent by comparing "pro-plague" to anti-vaxxers, but please don't analogize anti-vaxxers with people's choice on mental health treatment. That's how we stigmatize mental health issues...

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#99

Post by abstractbarista » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:02 PM UTC

thanatropism wrote: post #83

abstractbarista wrote: post #75

I found this to be a very intriguing read. Upon finishing it, I am terrified of these drugs, terrified of pharmaceutical companies, and terrified of the cognitive dissonance in the study of mental illness. I would try absolutely anything before these drugs. It's a freaking nightmare, thrust into reality.

That's a shame. Most of these pieces are hysteria. Journalists and lawyers never go after people who seem to be fine with medication. Here's hoping you don't have serious mental health problems in the future.

I definitely understand where you're coming from. Surely there are a lot of people that this stuff actually helps really well. In the past I did have serious issues, but I was able to bring myself out of it over time, by myself. And now, I have nurtured a far more stable and enduring mindset. :)

EDIT: By far the biggest part in me getting better was moving on to a different way of life. Basically, changing the set and setting. Which I think is underrated by the professionals described in this article, hence the problem:

Treating the symptoms, not their source.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#100

Post by nerdponx » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 10:05 PM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #88

beenBoutIT wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a last resort for people who have been thoroughly screened by MDs and neurologists. According to sleep experts at Stanford at least 25% of people with ADHD/ADD are narcoleptics who've been misdiagnosed. That's a shitload of people who are currently living suboptimal lives because they went to a psychiatrist prior to being evaluated by a neurologist.

A good example is everyone I know with hypothyroidism, five out of five were put on a variety of psychiatric drugs for years before being properly diagnosed. Frankly I think MD's shouldn't be allowed to prescribe psychiatric drugs period.

How about my friend, whose "bipolar" disappeared when they got a positive test result for celiac and stopped eating gluten? Or myself for that matter, whose problems with sleep, gait, muscle weakness, mood instability, and difficulty paying attention all more or less evaporated when I went gluten free after my own celiac diagnosis?

These weren't quack diagnoses either. We both saw traditional gastroenterologists, in different states, several years apart, both of us seeking treatment for different things. My diagnosis was confirmed with blood and endoscopy, as well as a follow-up DNA test to make sure I had the right mutation that makes it possible for celiac to arise.