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The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

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Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#71

Post by penagwin »

dmortin wrote: post #8

Does depression go away after a while if taking meds? Or does the person having depression need to take meds for the rest of his/her life to avoid relapsing?

I'm going to disagree with the others, in my experience the correct combination of medications allows a depressed/anxious person to feel happy. It doesn't necessarily "make you happy" like recreational drugs do. "Feeling numb" is a common depression symptom, so I feel others are confusing it with that. Although if you use too much xanax/klonopin/lithium, etc. then yes it will make you more numb. But SSRI's, SNRI's, and NDRI's don't do that.

Depression is usually a cycle, I'm too tired to go to class, ends up failing classes, great now I'm a useless human, fails more classes, becomes too tired to do anything I normally enjoy, can't focus on homework, becomes more depressed, socializing causes too much anxiety to make friends, etc. This was me last year.

The hope is that with the correct combination of medications you'll manage to "break" this loop. You can start to focus again, maybe complete some homework. You have enough energy to get yourself to class. Your grades improve, you don't self-loath as much, your life improves, you make supportive friends.

Once you have your life back in your control you can consider discontinuing your medication. You might go off it and be fine, now that you were able to focus on your stresses in life and how to handle them, you may find you don't have any issues without your medication. Or everything becomes worse again and you have to stay on it.

To be honest, modern psychiatry is kinda a crapshoot and nobody knows 100% for sure how antidepressants work, why some people don't respond at all to prozac but do to cymbalta, etc. There's a lot of research involving your diet, your gut bacteria's health, your immune system's effect on mood, etc. All of these will be a factor.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#72

Post by rhcom2 »

throwaway55254 wrote: post #11

This terrifies me. I've been trying to get up the nerve to talk to my doctor about my mental health for years now. I've been depressed on and off for a large portion of my life. I've always been really wary of pills though and reading things like this makes me worry even more. I wonder if the efficacy is actually there or if the withdrawal is worth it.

I encourage you to talk to your doctor or a physiatrist but always keep in mind, it is YOUR body and YOUR decision to take a medication. I've been to psychiatrists that will be pushy with medication, gloss over side effects and ignore your concerns and you should feel like you always have the power to say, "No. I'm not interest in taking that" or even just taking their script and never filling it.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#73

Post by mmjaa »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #66
mmjaa wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative: question what you are being told about why you don't feel good, and don't just go along with the pack - its not always headed in the right direction. Case in point: The West's mental health addiction problem. It isn't getting better because of pharmaceutical treatment: its getting worse .

So reject the best known treatments, flawed as they may be, and instead choose internal reflection, when for many conditions being unable to accurately reflect is either a cause or a symptom of the condition?

There are many, many alternatives to a life of addiction.

My only point is, don't just blindly accept pharmaceutical dependence without at least considering the alternatives. Pharmaceutical addiction is no benign thing - addiction and dependency is a key factor in the profit motives of the military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex. Before you fall for their traps, be sure you've considered the alternative.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#74

Post by TossMeAmadeus »

throwaway55254 wrote: post #11

This terrifies me. I've been trying to get up the nerve to talk to my doctor about my mental health for years now. I've been depressed on and off for a large portion of my life. I've always been really wary of pills though and reading things like this makes me worry even more. I wonder if the efficacy is actually there or if the withdrawal is worth it.

Look into writing about your past. Self Authoring will guide you through it, it quite literally cut my own anxiety in half or more.

Personally my anxiety/depression when it flares up is virtually always a direct result of poor diet/lack of sleep which compounds itself into lack of energy and lack of exercise. Once you find something that works, hold onto it for dear life because you need to use your good times to build good habits.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#75

Post by abstractbarista »

I found this to be a very intriguing read. Upon finishing it, I am terrified of these drugs, terrified of pharmaceutical companies, and terrified of the cognitive dissonance in the study of mental illness. I would try absolutely anything before these drugs. It's a freaking nightmare, thrust into reality.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#76

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

mmjaa wrote: post #73
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So reject the best known treatments, flawed as they may be, and instead choose internal reflection, when for many conditions being unable to accurately reflect is either a cause or a symptom of the condition?

There are many, many alternatives to a life of addiction. My only point is, don't just blindly accept pharmaceutical dependence without at least considering the alternatives. Pharmaceutical addiction is no benign thing - addiction and dependency is a key factor in the profit motives of the military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex. Before you fall for their traps, be sure you've considered the alternative.

I'm a bit concerned about a figure it out yourself approach to this sort of thing - it can be very hard for someone who is cognitively compromised to make an objectively good choice. Also it can be hard to make an actual good choice when you don't have all the right education - the pro-plague crowd honestly think they are making the correct choice based upon their consideration of all the alternatives.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#77

Post by travisjungroth »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #47
magic_beans wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most important question here. I hope OP has been able to address the original cause of the insomnia, lest it happen again.

Not fully, but I strongly suspect it had a lot to do with the building I work in. My building has no windows. My lab simulates space, so it is a big room that is painted black. Daylight Savings had just stopped, so I was getting an hour of sunlight driving in to work, no sunlight during the day, and leaving after it got dark. I think my circadian rhythms were completed screwed up. Once you have insomnia for a few wee…

Holy crap you were living in constant darkness. Of course you had sleep issues. Did you ever try light exposure?

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#78

Post by tcj_phx »

clydethefrog wrote: post #67
tcj_phx wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abilify is one of the least-bad of its class. But it doesn't address the metabolic problem that is at the root of psychosis. Coconut oil, niacin/niacinamide (vitamin B-3), and other pro-metabolic interventions help get at the actual causes behind the diagnosis. Coconut oil is helpful because it can be directly metabolized by the cells, whereas longer saturated fats have to be ... processed somehow before they can be…

Very interesting, especially for someone which psychosis was alcohol induced. Thanks. I avoid coconut oil because of the fats, but I will change it now! I already noticed probiotic foods make me much happier. Question: Cortisol is a stress hormone, how can a deficiency cause psychosis?

> Very interesting, especially for someone which psychosis was alcohol induced

My earlier comment about the reason some people find alcohol to be so seductive: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085230

> I avoid coconut oil because of the fats, but I will change it now!

If you're avoiding sugar too, try salted orange juice. This is a good source of sugar and potassium. If your OJ isn't very sweet you can add a spoonful of sugar.

> I already noticed probiotic foods make me much happier.

Good observation. Less-desirable intestinal microorganisms create endotoxin, which have to be detoxified by the liver.

> Cortisol is a stress hormone, how can a deficiency cause psychosis?

Cortisol tells the body to get more sugar into circulation. Cortisol levels are highest in the morning, when it's been the longest since the last meal. Cortisol is released when blood sugar gets low, or when a person might suddenly need a jolt of sugar to respond to a threatening situation.

My current understanding is that when a person runs low on fuel (sugar), their body will compensate by putting its most fuel-hungry organ (the brain) into hibernation: "psychosis".

Alcoholics train their nervous system to run on alcohol. People who become psychotic from alcohol withdrawal need help avoiding alcohol, and retraining their nerves to run on sugar. (Edit: alcoholic psychosis is some combination of inflammation, insulin resistance and fuel deprivation.)

See link above, and search my comment history for 'alcohol'.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#79

Post by martinald »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #48
mmjaa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Knowing that I have medications available to me that can help me get to sleep is enough that I think I don't actually need the medications any more. Honest question: Have you ever considered that your insomnia was psychosomatic and , through your doctors involvement in for-profit sales of pharmaceuticals, socially re-inforced?

Most chronic insomnia is psychosomatic. The problem with calling it "psychosomatic" is that people who haven't experienced it think that means it isn't real. But it is. You can't just talk yourself out of psychosomatic illnesses. They're as real as any other kind. You need some sort of medical care to manage or overcome them, just as much as if you had a broken leg. In my case, I see my psychiatrist once a quarter fo…

I dont mean to be alarmist but taking benzodiazepines for an extended time (anything more than 2 weeks is probably a bad idea, especially with strong ones such as clonazepam), is definitely not a great idea. There is a very prolonged withdrawal syndrome, with many not reporting feeling completely better after many years in cases of high dose long term usage.

You may take the view that you can always take them, but circumstances change (your doctor may no longer be allowed/feel comfortable prescribing for a long time - this happened with opiods) or you may not be able to get access with them for other reasons.

The drugs will most likely stop working or rapidly increase in side effects after very long term use, it's generally just a matter of time.

I would strongly recommend you get a plan to taper if possible and look into alternatives. Many think the benzodiazepine withdrawal is as bad if not worse than opioid (plus it can be lethal).

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#80

Post by beenBoutIT »

penagwin wrote: post #65
beenBoutIT wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be a last resort for people who have been thoroughly screened by MDs and neurologists. According to sleep experts at Stanford at least 25% of people with ADHD/ADD are narcoleptics who've been misdiagnosed. That's a shitload of people who are currently living suboptimal lives because they went to a psychiatrist prior to being evaluated by a neurologist.

Might not be the best example, as narcolepsy is usually treated with stimulants and antidepressants, so adding say ritalin may still improve symptoms regardless of if it's actual ADD/ADHD or narcolepsy

In this case psychiatry covers up the symptoms with stimulants (that further degrade sleep) while neurology can effectively fix the bad sleep. Psychiatry provides a poorly fitting bandage while neurology has something on par with a cure. There's no better example that I'm aware of.
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