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The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

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Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#21
post #7
post #3

> In the course of a year, her doctors had created what’s known as “a prescription cascade”: the side effects of one medication are diagnosed as symptoms of another condition, leading to a succession of new prescriptions. This term, "prescription cascade", should be lesson #1 at medical school. It's the natural result of an incomplete diagnosis, and is present in every medical field. > At the hospital, where she stay…

"Mood stabilizer" is a quite accurate description of the usual function of the drug - in bipolar patients like me, it reduces the magnitude and stabilizes the period of mood swings. Mood stabilizers also tend to be anti-seizure meds, and have all kinds of off-label uses because of neurological phenomena we don't understand, but the label is a very useful one. Same for antidepressants - often the same drugs (especiall…

I think what the parent was trying to say was that "antibiotic" describes the drugs' method of action, while "antidepressant" describes the drugs' intended affect.

> due to the ill-understood nature of the brain,

I think this is exactly the problem. We have a bunch of drugs that seem to work, and we think we know how and why they work, but we're not able to directly measure the problem in those terms. If someone has a bacterial infection, we can culture it and prescribe the correct antibiotic. If someone has a mental health condition, we almost always have to consider the way that it's presenting and make an educated guess as to which drug is going to be effective. It's not at all uncommon for that first guess to be incorrect, which leads to either iteration or a "cascade" depending on the practitioner.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#22

This terrifies me. I've been trying to get up the nerve to talk to my doctor about my mental health for years now. I've been depressed on and off for a large portion of my life. I've always been really wary of pills though and reading things like this makes me worry even more. I wonder if the efficacy is actually there or if the withdrawal is worth it.

I've found that if you're firm that you want to explore non-drug solutions first, medical professionals are pretty receptive.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#23
post #8

Does depression go away after a while if taking meds? Or does the person having depression need to take meds for the rest of his/her life to avoid relapsing?

Depends on whether the depression is situational. People don't like to admit that sometimes people are sad because their situation, and not because of something inherent to themselves. Sadness -- even persistent sadness -- can sometimes be a healthy response to an unhealthy environment, that drives you to try and change your situation for the better.

The problem is when the sadness becomes the crippling kind that prevents you from acting to change the situation that's making you sad to begin with. It can be helpful, I think, to take anti-depressants long enough for you to be able to enact positive change in your life.

My wife was taking anti-depressants as she finished up college, then she went traveling, met me while we were both backpacking, we got married, have two kids. She weaned off the anti-depressants while we were engaged. She gets transitory anxiety attacks every once in a while, but she's told me she's never had a relapse of depression. I think she was just bored and lonely and stressed in college -- a temporary situation.

This is all just my personal opinion, i'm not a psychiatrist.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#24

Prescription Cascade with psychiatric drugs is out of control. Seen it first hand. Had to step in and put a lot of pressure on doctors (and change doctors) to finally get my finance off the worst of the meds they had her on -- and finally "cure" her -- they just wanted to keep playing new drug musical chairs.

I've had similar experiences with myself. After high school I was prescribed two drugs in combination (Lexapro and Abilify) that helped me deal with and get a handle on my (serious) depression, and that was really easy. When I told them that I hated the way they made me feel and wanted to taper off of them once I was stabilized... that wasn't so easy.

At the end of the day I had to issue a sort of ultimatum: I was going to discontinue those drugs with or without their assistance, but recognized the risks of doing so and would prefer to do it with their oversight. I did it "against medical advise, but with medical supervision".

Years later I asked for and was once again prescribed Lexapro, but at a lower dosage and for a different issue. Apparently it was either Abilify or the combination of the two that caused my issues before.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#25
post #9

I generally am supportive of people seeking psychiatric treatment, but wow, this woman's case seems, in retrospect, rather mismanaged. It is like her doctors tried to medicate away an epiphany. Realizing that "the glittering balls and designer clothing has no real underlying substance" and being depressed that one's life is limited to such things, is not a cause for medication. It sounds like she was struggling to be…

Psychiatry should not be front-line treatment for most people. End of story.

For most people, psychiatry is overkill, sure sure.

But heck, look at the diagnostic criteria for Bi-Polar,

> The mood disturbance is sufficiently severe to cause marked impairment in occupational functioning or in usual social activities or relationships with others, or to necessitate hospitalization to prevent harm to self or others, or there are psychotic features.

That line about "marked impairment in occupational functioning" is a common theme in the DSM. (Hypomania has a lower threshhold, but still involves risk to self) If someone is able to live their life, hold down a job, isn't a risk to themselves / others, then they should be directed to a psychologist or therapist.

Bloody hell, the DSM says this, again and again and again.

In the must be met criteria for ADHD:

> There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning.

Major depressive disorder, again, with this requirement:

> Cause significant distress or severely impact social, occupational or other important life areas

The diagnostic criteria is pretty on point.

But even so, misdiagnosis is possible. If someone comes in and says that they hate their job and their spouse is abusive, the correct solution is a lawyer / career training (probably in that order?), not a pill!

If someone comes in and says "my life has no meaning", maybe it isn't anhedonia, maybe the activities in their life legitimately aren't of interest to them!

We all feel social pressure to fit in with the culture we grow up with. The great thing about America is, if we don't fit in with that culture, plenty of other culture's abound! But first people have to realize that they can leave the culture they are familiar with if it isn't bringing them happiness.

We all know that one engineer who decided to be become a brick layer, and who is now super happy! Heck one of my friends and old co-workers went from being a preacher to coder!

We all need to realize that laying bricks is just as fulfilling and meaningful as writing code[1] and not being judgmental about people's choice to leave one career behind and go into another.

My masseuse used to be in the corporate world.

One of the best Chocolatiers[2] alive used to work at Microsoft.

Parents, if you kids aren't happy living the upper class lifestyle that you dreamed of when you were working your way up the ladder, then support them doing something else! Tell them that they don't have to live up to your dreams, or fit into the societal image of perfection created by the culture one is surrounded by.

[1] Possibly more so, the bricks are going to outlive 99.9% of code that is ever written, and will likely be appreciated by far more people.

[2] I've traveled to quite a few countries and found her equal, but none that surpass. http://bruggechocolates.com/

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#26
post #8

Does depression go away after a while if taking meds? Or does the person having depression need to take meds for the rest of his/her life to avoid relapsing?

My experience is that meds take the symptoms away. You no longer feel sad, but you are still "depressed". Kind of like pain medication takes the pain away, but your leg is still broken.

I experienced depression as symptom of a deeper "illness" of the brain that needs to be cured with psychotherapy. If it wasn't for that I'd still make the same mistakes again and again that made me depressed in the first place.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychiatry should not be front-line treatment for most people. End of story.

For most people, psychiatry is overkill, sure sure. But heck, look at the diagnostic criteria for Bi-Polar, > The mood disturbance is sufficiently severe to cause marked impairment in occupational functioning or in usual social activities or relationships with others, or to necessitate hospitalization to prevent harm to self or others, or there are psychotic features. That line about "marked impairment in occupationa…

The definitions can be more easily met when you consider "Cause significant distress" or "reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning" - that's much larger, and people can be visibly firing on all cylinders, but if they report reduced quality or distress, then it meets those criteria.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#28
post #16
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's under-discussed. Part of the reason seems to be that people have such variable reactions. I have friends who literally had to quarter their pills while tapering off of them, and I also have friends who were able to stop taking them cold turkey and felt fine in less than a week.

>I agree that it's under-discussed. I think the reason its under-discussed is that there is a collective group-think which functions as overwhelming (to the individual) reinforcement: "there is no other way available to solve this problem than the mass sale and consumption of pharmaceuticals". The moment someone proposes a non-pharmaceutical (read: profitable) solution to many of these ills, they are shut down by the…

Therapy is also a long lasting, lucrative approach. I think you're confusing consumerism with the long standing idea that we should be able to solve everything with a pill. It's evident in the older generations insistence that if they could just have that one surgery for their knees, or that round of antibiotics for their cold, their lives would be 100% better.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#29
post #8

Does depression go away after a while if taking meds? Or does the person having depression need to take meds for the rest of his/her life to avoid relapsing?

Depends. If the depression is somewhat "temporary", as it was for me at one point, then a temporary prescription can help smooth out your emotional state while you cope with the cause.

Meanwhile I expect to be on my anti-anxiety medication for my life, as my brain chemistry is not going to fix itself.

Re: The Challenge of Going Off Psychiatric Drugs

#30
post #8

Does depression go away after a while if taking meds? Or does the person having depression need to take meds for the rest of his/her life to avoid relapsing?

There are too many different factors that affect depression. Genetic susceptibility, time of year, relationships, various psychological factors, social factors, etc. Meds will not cure depression, but they will alleviate the symptoms while you work on addressing some of the factors that cause it.

Think of it like Ibuprofen. It's there to help you manage pain, but it won't fix things.

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