Warp – Mobile VPN • Hacker News Board

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#261

Post by nitrogen » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #198

atonse wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ISP might be doing it knowing you're connecting to Netflix. But if you do a VPN, they don't know those specific packets are going to Netflix, so they can't shape the packets.

They certainly can shape any traffic you cause to transit their network. What you mean is they can't selectively shape that traffic. But then why would they want to do that?

"Why" doesn't matter when it has already been proven that they do.

Just search through HN for any discussion of net neutrality.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#262

Post by lapinot » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #245

ksec wrote: post #241

193 Comments and No one has asked yet. How do they make money? So, the price plan and extras from Business, Professional and Enterprise CDN is enough to cover all the cost of running the network + free tier CDN + Domain Registration Operation + DNS + Free tier VPN? There is a reason why I am using Apple. Their interest is in me using iPhone or Apple devices with a very decent profits margin, and hopefully up sell me…

In the article see the section "Ok, Sure, But You’re Still a Profit-Seeking Company"

Relevant info being

> Warp+ premium service

> enterprise VPN space

> So the more people who install Warp, the more valuable Cloudflare’s core services become.

The last one being the key: they acknowledge they will run it even if it's not profitable. See my other comment.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#263

Post by superkuh » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

0815test wrote: post #240

superkuh wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. How does a user who is using Cloudflare's Warp accept incoming connections to a port? If they cannot then it is not the internet. It's more akin to a 'web' only service.

> If they cannot then it is not the internet. It's more akin to a 'web' only service. CGNAT means that the same is true of "mobile" connections in general, so it's not like Warp is changing anything for the worse here. Though the Tor network does allow you to host a .onion-linked service over such a connection, but that - while quite handy - seems more like a special case to me.

Yes. Most mobile connections are not real internet connections. I agree.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#264

Post by kentonv » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:15 PM UTC

arendtio wrote: post #85

> We built Warp around WireGuard So basically Cloudflare created an app with Cloudflare branding and set up a Wireguard server for everyone. No bad, but just check out the original: https://www.wireguard.com While I am not a big fan of VPNs in general, I have to admit, that Wireguard performs exceptionally well. I tested it a week ago and the added latency is pretty much just the network latency and the bandwidth los…

> So basically Cloudflare created an app with Cloudflare branding and set up a Wireguard server for everyone.

Not just one -- servers in 175 (and growing) locations spread around the world, and the app will always use the closest one to you. That's arguably a lot more important that what protocol it uses, and is not something you could easily DIY.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#265

Post by almostbasic » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

tuxone wrote: post #254

> That many VPN companies pretend to keep your data private and then sell it to help target you with advertising is, in a word, disgusting. That is not Cloudflare’s business model and it never will be. When I read something like that I feel protected and cared about. Now, can someone explain me why this should be in any form different from the WhatsApp case?

Let's not forget how Cloudflare got started...

The Department of Homeland Security offered to buy the data from Project Honeypot (run by Matthew Prince and Lee Holloway), and they sold it to them for $20,000. Michele Zatlyn (a classmate of Prince) said "if they'll pay for it, other people will pay for it."

"And so the idea for Cloudflare was born, with Ms Zatlyn as its third co-founder." [with Prince and Holloway]

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-37348016

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#266

Post by felbane » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:17 PM UTC

tuxone wrote: post #254

> That many VPN companies pretend to keep your data private and then sell it to help target you with advertising is, in a word, disgusting. That is not Cloudflare’s business model and it never will be. When I read something like that I feel protected and cared about. Now, can someone explain me why this should be in any form different from the WhatsApp case?

Well, one of the big differences is the fact that you don't have to provide any information to use 1.1.1.1 or Warp, just download the app. That means that at worst, the only personally-identifiable information they get is your IP and usage patterns.

If CloudFlare is bought by Comcast and they start doing Bad Guy Things™, then your exposed surface area is rather low.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#267

Post by foobarbazetc » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #47

hsivonen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the service be used with another Wireguard client (hopefully bundled into Linux distros in the future) without installing Cloudflare’s client software?

We do not currently plan to allow third-party WireGuard clients to connect to the service.

So you’ve taken WireGuard and commercialized it into your own incompatible implementation or?

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#268

Post by reneberlin » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

Think about it: who is behind cloudflare?

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#269

Post by foobarbazetc » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

jgrahamc wrote: post #4

ilarum wrote: post #2

It would be really interesting to learn more about the technical details of the "UDP-based protocol" Warp uses

I imagine at some point we'll blog about it, but we've been working with the Neumob technology we acquired and QUIC for some time. Also, this post is relevant: https://blog.cloudflare.com/boringtun-userspace-wireguard-ru...

How does that work with wireguard though? The Neuomob thing was pitched at us as some black box “magic” you integrate into your own app which we turned down since the library source isn’t available. Is it running on the mobile VPN app or is it running between the VPN server and whatever the exit POP is?

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#270

Post by eastdakota » Mon, Apr 01, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

mysterypie wrote: post #203

Just as an aside, I thought that was an exceptionally well-written product announcement, or press release, or whatever you'd call it. It was long, but I didn't mind reading the whole thing. It answered all the basic questions about why I should use it, how they plan to make money, and with enough technical detail that I understood essentially how it works. It was very much the opposite of the marketing material you g…

Thank you. That's very nice of you to say. It was a team effort because we were working until the last minute to figure out exactly what we were going to be able to announce today. Glad it came across as clear.