Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Warp – Mobile VPN

blog.cloudflare.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 500 posts

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#161

Post by PaulHoule »

Shank wrote: post #154
maltalex wrote: post #121

I'd wager that the Super Secret Plan is geared towards further centralizing the Internet. Preferably on Cloud Flare's infrastructure. This is one part of a tug-of-war that's going on in recent years between Internet network operators and cloud providers, with the cloud providers slowly but surely winning. For better or worse, we are moving away from a distributed Internet composed of many autonomous networks into a f…

I don’t think this would fly for a number of reasons, but CloudFlare isn’t exactly a world leader or even a household name. They’re a newcomer in this space and for once they’re actually open with their community (us). If CloudFlare is the villain, then are CenturyLink & Comcast the heroes? By my estimation, we’re more likely to see any kind of doomsday scenario like that executed by cable companies and telcos — whic…

I don't think CloudFlare is a newcomer. They're big in the CDN market.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#162

Post by martingxx »

jgrahamc wrote: post #108
gok wrote: post #70

This sounds super cool. Any chance more of the client will be open sourced? (I presume this uses the recently-released Rust WireGuard core?)

Not right now. The burden of supporting that as open source would be too high.

Why not release anyway (for transparency) but with explicitly no support?

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#163

Post by jrockway »

newscracker wrote: post #52
jgrahamc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do not currently plan to allow third-party WireGuard clients to connect to the service.

Could you elaborate why? Is it because you may not be able to field support requests and complaints from users who may have clients with issues or may have misconfigured it? Or are there other reasons too? Would you ever make the code of the 1.1.1.1 app with Warp open source?

> Could you elaborate why?

Embrace, extend, extinguish!

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#164

Post by maltalex »

Shank wrote: post #154
maltalex wrote: post #121

I'd wager that the Super Secret Plan is geared towards further centralizing the Internet. Preferably on Cloud Flare's infrastructure. This is one part of a tug-of-war that's going on in recent years between Internet network operators and cloud providers, with the cloud providers slowly but surely winning. For better or worse, we are moving away from a distributed Internet composed of many autonomous networks into a f…

I don’t think this would fly for a number of reasons, but CloudFlare isn’t exactly a world leader or even a household name. They’re a newcomer in this space and for once they’re actually open with their community (us). If CloudFlare is the villain, then are CenturyLink & Comcast the heroes? By my estimation, we’re more likely to see any kind of doomsday scenario like that executed by cable companies and telcos — whic…

No one is the villain here, it's not that simple.

These are companies that respond to market pressures. Routing around the network operators (both figuratively and literally) makes a lot of sense for large cloud providers. Especially so if there are no network neutrality rules in place to enforce free access to consumers (as opposed to consumer ISPs demanding payment for pushing content to their subscribers).

Also, the content from Google, Facebook and a couple other cloud providers is what consumers actually want. I've seen internal numbers from a European mobile provider that show that >80% of consumer traffic is to/from either Facebook or Youtube. So are the consumers villains?

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#165

Post by dfgert »

No matter how much they try to sell it as a good will gesture towards mobile users, I will not buy it. There are good examples where company starts off with good intent but later turns into a typical selfish corporation. Lets face it, every single corporation has to continuously grow, as demanded by market, which means at some point they will break their promises to implement new means of making money.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#166

Post by saurik »

From where does the user's traffic originate? Is it the closest location on that map to where they started? Is it always the same country? (I'm guessing not, as there are a lot of countries? ;P But maybe that's true for larger countries?)

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#167

Post by Godel_unicode »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #151
mwcampbell wrote: post #61

It seems to me that in practice, Cloudflare's mission is not actually to build a better Internet, but to offer an alternative, proprietary network (one could call it the CloudflareNet), and convince content providers and consumers to use that network. Because I don't want any single company to have too much power, I'll stick with the standard Internet, which is not owned by any single company. However, I realize that…

> Because I don't want any single company to have too much power, Yes. Agreed. But if not Cloudflare as a pushback alternative to those trying to own the internet, then who? It seems to me the "standard internet" is getting smaller and smaller. What other options do we have?

This pearl clutching is getting out of control. The existence of cloudflare is totally orthogonal to your ability to self-host content on the internet. They don't have any power, except over their customers and those customers customers. If you don't want to use them, then don't. No one is stopping you.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#168

Post by jgrahamc »

mwcampbell wrote: post #148
jgrahamc wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DNSSEC is a standard. We literally adopted and promoted a standard. That is not about your original comment about us trying to take over the Internet or something. And we work hard on the standards-based Internet pushing HTTP/2, IPv6, QUIC, TLS 1.3, ...

Touché on DNSSEC. That only confused things. But the rest of my comment still stands.

I get where you are coming from but I think there's a significant headwind to us doing something weirdly proprietary. If we were to create some two-tier Internet then our clients (who have web/API servers) would start having part of their audience/consumers get poorer performance or security or something. So we'd be sticking a finger in the eye of the people who pay us.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#169

Post by jgrahamc »

dexterdog wrote: post #113
jgrahamc wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't host web sites. What nag screens are you talking about?

Those "cloudflare loading" screens that come up when visiting some low-traffic sites. It's probably more common for people using privacy blockers and browser containers to block tracking. I see it at least a few times per day and I get captchas on almost any site that uses them (regardless of being behind cloudflare).

That's "I'm Under Attack Mode" which is used by sites (mostly smaller ones) to protect against small DDoS attacks or scrapers.

Re: Warp – Mobile VPN

#170

Post by jgrahamc »

newaccoutnas wrote: post #25
onychomys wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any linux phones? I thought everybody was either on OS or some flavor of Android (....plus some WindowsPhone holdouts, I suppose). Android is vaguely based on the linux kernal, but nobody would really count that.

A wireguard (proper) android client has been on my phone for months. Cloudflare seemed to have talked very little to the upstream at all here. Jason commented on this here: https://lists.zx2c4.com/pipermail/wireguard/2019-March/00404... It'd be interesting to see a response from Cloudflare (unless there is one an I've missed it)

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19544819
Post reply on HN