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The one-salary experiment, ten years in

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Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#151

Post by dcosson »

the_bear wrote: post #119
Consultant32452 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I want is the ability to get compensated for benefits I decline, particularly the company health plan. I've never been able to negotiate this successfully.

I believe that this is not possible in America. I'm a founder and we just started offering health benefits earlier this year. I tried really hard to figure out a way to let employees effectively pay 100% of their premium (either by paying them more if they opt out or just having the company share be 0%). I talked to a number of people, looked into different types of plans (HRAs, etc) and at the end of the day, I coul…

Why did you want to not pay for health insurance?

Even if you had found a legal loophole to do this, just about everybody is going to want health insurance and I’m pretty sure if the company pays then it’s not taxed, plus you can get better rates that way as you get bigger. So it’s more expensive overall for the same plans if you make employees pay.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#152

Post by virgilp »

user5994461 wrote: post #100
wting wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe grandparent was referring to proactive raises. Reactive counter offer raises typically don't work because the employee's mind has been made up to leave. Compensation is usually only part of why someone decided to leave.

It's a myth spread out by recruiters. They do not get paid when the developer doesn't change job. They'll say anything to get you to leave. Truth is, counter offers happen and work out. When it's about compensation, not toxic workplace/coworker, or relocating elsewhere to live with your wife/children.

A former manager - and friend - of mine told me that, when switching jobs, former employer made a handsome counter-offer, I think basically doubling his compensation; it was more than he got at the new gig. His reaction? "Now I also feel insulted. So that's how much I was worth to you, but you waited for me to leave before adjusting my pay?"

It strikes me as a reasonable attitude, and one that I've adopted too. I don't have time to be constantly checking the market; if I get a better offer, either you can't afford a counter-offer, or if you can, well, screw you anyway.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#153

Post by impostir »

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #5

As an economist, you'd expect them to have trouble attracting highly skilled people seeking only wages. On the other hand, also as an economist and from my own personal experience, there's a whole host of non-monetary benefits a flexible business can provide (which other businesses and corporates seem to balk at), and there's also the little talked about preference of some people wanting a negative correlation betwee…

With the average labor-leisure curves of most people being an inverted c-shaped, I would be more surprised if it wasn't beneficial for most people to choose improved life over pay.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#154

Post by dcosson »

rgoulter wrote: post #81

Aside from pay, I find the anti-hierarchical aspects interesting. How people interact in a small business is surely different than in a larger business, so I'd guess small business is more inclined to need a culture of "we're all in this together". I think that "everyone is as important as everyone else" is in tension with "the market rate for developer and support roles are different than our flat salary". I think t…

Yeah, I have a really hard time seeing how this would be a nice culture to work in. Everybody is clearly not as valuable as everyone else, and it seems pretty inevitable that people would come to resent each other and stop working hard, if you’re just as valuable whether you do amazing work or mediocre work.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#155

Post by Confusion »

willnz wrote: post #37
JohnGB wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands, if you have a child under 9 years old (it could be 8), your company is required, by law, to let you work 4 days a week if your want. It's actually really common with something like 28% of working men taking a "papadag" ("Daddy day" in English). I wouldn't even consider a job that didn't allow me time to spend with my kids. Money is definitely not the primary driver for a lot of people.

Do you accept a lower salary if you opt to work four days a week?

Yes, you only get paid 80% of your former salary.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#156

Post by Confusion »

zbentley wrote: post #52
willnz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you accept a lower salary if you opt to work four days a week?

I would hope not. This article suggests that this is not the case (sorry about the adblocker modal): https://www.dutchnews.nl/features/2016/06/professor-aims-to-...

No, there’s some confusion here. There are two distinct benefits you are entitled to when you become a father.

One is that you get exactly 1 week of paid leave.

The other is the right to take 26 weeks of unpaid ‘parental leave’ during the first 9 years, which is often used to e.g. start working 4 days a week (the leave is used at a rate of 1 day per week then; you could also use it for taking half a year off at once).

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#157

Post by realusername »

Cd00d wrote: post #139
kzisme wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2-5% raises are all I've seen pretty much (which is just cost of living).

I see this sentiment often, but I don't quite understand. Inflation has been at I'm in NYC and our trouble with the subway have highlighted that MTA workers get a standard 6% raise each year as cost of living. But, it's way more than that, and it's actually a salary doubling every 11 years or so, which is not at all in line with overall wage growth - it's huge. Sure, in tech you can jump jobs every 3 years for 20% ju…

> Inflation has been at That's because inflation is not the same as purchasing power.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#158

Post by wiredfool »

Cd00d wrote: post #139
kzisme wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2-5% raises are all I've seen pretty much (which is just cost of living).

I see this sentiment often, but I don't quite understand. Inflation has been at I'm in NYC and our trouble with the subway have highlighted that MTA workers get a standard 6% raise each year as cost of living. But, it's way more than that, and it's actually a salary doubling every 11 years or so, which is not at all in line with overall wage growth - it's huge. Sure, in tech you can jump jobs every 3 years for 20% ju…

1.06^11 = 1.89, so yes. That’s about doubling in 11 years.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#159

Post by titanomachy »

readingnews wrote: post #73
bmdavi3 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you went to your manager, or whoever you feel is the right person, asked if you could speak one on one, and said... "I really love working at this company. The work is interesting, I love the people, the culture, . But I also know I could be making X if I went elsewhere. I love the work I'm doing, and I want to keep doing it here, but I also don't want to be leaving money on the table. What can we do?" This p…

I wish I worked at your firm. I once worked at a place and saved them millions in one year. At the yearly review, they said "well, that was some good work". That was the entire review. When I said "how about giving me an extra 1k a year (a bit less than others who had been there for a while were getting) I was told we had no extra cash. Well... wow, I just saved you like 1.5 million dollars. I am not asking for that,…

"I have no idea how you people have such nice jobs..."

Crack one of the top 5 companies and you'll be set for life.

Most of them have offices around the world, although engineering tends to be focused in certain US and European cities. They might ask you to move there.

If you have the initiative and skill to identify a $1.5M cost-saving opportunity and execute it, you are probably good enough to work at Facebook (or wherever). Just practice interviewing for a couple weeks. Every class of question you could be asked is represented on Leetcode/Hackerrank/etc.

Re: The one-salary experiment, ten years in

#160

Post by titanomachy »

Aeolun wrote: post #124
shhehebehdh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, maybe. Or it shows that they hired people who were relatively comp insensitive, possibly due to being unable to command higher wages elsewhere. Hard to know.

Isn’t that what was said?

The first comment said that the culture is so good that devs don't leave even with capped salary. The next comment said (politely) that maybe they don't leave because they are for some reason unable to command top-tier salaries.
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