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Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

nytimes.com

11–20 of 35 posts

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#11

Here is my take. In long past times, baseballs were reused until warn out, and those that went into the stands were returned. This allowed the balls to get naturally bruised up, which inadvertently gave pitchers more (unpredictable) movement than today's clean, unused baseballs. Because of this, old pitchers may not have had to throw with as much elbow rotation as today's pitchers do to get effective levels of moveme…

I think the pace they throw the ball at has to have something to do with it now too. Just in the last several years the number of pitchers throwing above 95 and above 100 seems to have dramatically increased.

This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-en...

It could be that making it easier to throw tricky off speed pitches would take the load off of arms (and add some fun variety to the game).

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#12
post #11

Here is my take. In long past times, baseballs were reused until warn out, and those that went into the stands were returned. This allowed the balls to get naturally bruised up, which inadvertently gave pitchers more (unpredictable) movement than today's clean, unused baseballs. Because of this, old pitchers may not have had to throw with as much elbow rotation as today's pitchers do to get effective levels of moveme…

I think the pace they throw the ball at has to have something to do with it now too. Just in the last several years the number of pitchers throwing above 95 and above 100 seems to have dramatically increased. This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-en... It could be that making it easier to throw tricky off speed pitch…

Good point. And I don't think you have to throw 95+ if the ball gives you great movement. At the extreme, look up wiffle ball pitching on youtube; its wild.

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#13
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the pace they throw the ball at has to have something to do with it now too. Just in the last several years the number of pitchers throwing above 95 and above 100 seems to have dramatically increased. This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-en... It could be that making it easier to throw tricky off speed pitch…

Good point. And I don't think you have to throw 95+ if the ball gives you great movement. At the extreme, look up wiffle ball pitching on youtube; its wild.

I was going to say I remember the wiffle curve but I do not remember anything like those YouTube wiffle experts.

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#14
post #2

Reminiscent of the countless ball tampering incidents in the sport of cricket. [1] Of the England cricket team in 2005: "It was my job to keep the shine on the new ball for as long as possible with a bit of spit and a lot of polish. And through trial and error I finally settled on the type of spit for the task at hand. It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva wh…

How pervasive does altering the ball have to become before we start to be suspicious if the ball doesn't look altered?

Kind of an inane, fear mongering question. Why foment an atmosphere of malignant intent? Paranoia and a suspicious tone of this sort is unnecessary, when it's trivial to reason what should be considered typical and ordinary.

What does a brand-new ball look like?

What does a worn-in ball look like?

Expectations should be somewhere in between.

The only reason a the rules of the game don't require a factory fresh, new ball for every turn, is because it would seem and feel wasteful. But in other sports and games, organizers DO go to great lengths to enforce authenticity, and prevent equipment tampering. Casino gambling uses fresh decks of cards, and extra shuffling, to prevent marking and counting, otherwise, the playing field acquires memory, reducing chance, and conferring advantage to attentive players.

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#15
post #2

Reminiscent of the countless ball tampering incidents in the sport of cricket. [1] Of the England cricket team in 2005: "It was my job to keep the shine on the new ball for as long as possible with a bit of spit and a lot of polish. And through trial and error I finally settled on the type of spit for the task at hand. It had been common knowledge in county cricket for some time that certain sweets produced saliva wh…

How pervasive does altering the ball have to become before we start to be suspicious if the ball doesn't look altered?

Cricket is a bit different to baseball because polishing the ball is an accepted part of the game. By polishing one side of the ball and allowing the other-side to naturally grow dull you alter the flight characteristics of the ball - it's how you can achieve movement through the air or 'swing'.

The ball is rarely replaced - it is very much intended for the condition of the ball to deteriorate over the course of an innings various tactics revolve around when to make bowling changes as some bowlers specialize with the 'new' ball which is shiny and hard and others have a style designed to exploit the older ball which is softer and more dull. There are certain time milestones that elapse in the match where captain can elect to replace a old worn ball with a new shiny ball.

The illegal part is ball tampering rubbing some foreign substance against the ball such as dirt or mud to weight it down or scuffing up the ball with something (A player on the Australian team was caught using a strip of sandpaper, which was a big scandal over here recently).

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#16

Here is my take. In long past times, baseballs were reused until warn out, and those that went into the stands were returned. This allowed the balls to get naturally bruised up, which inadvertently gave pitchers more (unpredictable) movement than today's clean, unused baseballs. Because of this, old pitchers may not have had to throw with as much elbow rotation as today's pitchers do to get effective levels of moveme…

Ice is causing the injuries. Yes Ice.

Growing up in the 60’s my next door neighbor, Eddie, an elderly man, who played semi-pro and a little pro ball. His cousin is Stanley Coveleski, a pitcher who is in the hall of fame, he still holds some World Series records, Stanley’s two brothers were pretty good as well.

Anyway, Eddie actually knew most of the greats, Babe, Ty, had a lot of pictures hanging out, playing cards, drinking, barnstorming etc. Eddie told me back in the late 60’s that ice was ruining the arms of pitchers. Eddie was a catcher and for barnstorming trips he got to catch a lot of great pitchers. Eddie said the icing of arms was what was causing pitchers to have so many problems. Eddie said that when you apply ice you stop the healing process, then the stresses and damages don’t get fully repaired, keep repeating and eventually something fails. He predicted that the problem would keep getting worse, because they were starting to have kids ice their arms in little league, creating very unstable arms at an early age.

A few years ago the guy who invented the RICE protocol admitted that he had no clinical basis for using ice. He used it because everyone else was using it, and that it was probably doing more harm than good, because the ice was removing the small amount of inflammation, signaling the body to stop the repair.

Eddies told me that for kids coming up they should keep them on a pitch count and give them more rest, and never any ice, let the body recover on its own. The body will build up the ligaments and tendons to combat the repeated stress, making recovery faster and easier over time. Because back in the day guys would throw 40 or 50 complete games a year and you can’t do that without having a “gorilla arm”, he said all great pitcher’s pitching arm!looked different than their other arm, you could see the buildup, the arms weren’t bigger just different.

Eddie was 75 and could still drop down into a catchers squat and bounce right up, then he’d say, “no ice”.

Turns out the guy was right, unless you’ve got compartment syndrome where you have a dangerous swelling problem you should let your body heal itself naturally. The little bit of swelling is your body putting blood and other fluids at the injury site to enact repairs, and using ice do remove those fluids is dumb. It’s like lowering a moderate fever when you are sick, you are compromiseing your bodies ability to fight the infection. Eddie told me that when he felt himself getting sick when he was younger he would go to a sauna and sweat it out, but now that he was older he’s take the hottest bath he could stand for as long as he could stand it. He lived into his 90’s and I never remember him being sick. I do the sauna trick when I’m sick, and it usually drastically reduces the severity and length of the cold or flu.

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#17
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cutter isn't a cheat pitch, is it?

No it's not: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_fastball I do think it would make sense to give pitchers some additional grip aid like pine tar when the temperature is below a certain level. It seems like in the unwritten rules of the game, this is usually allowed if kept discrete. The great body of unwritten rules is what makes baseball so enjoyable to follow over many years but also may be contributing to the decl…

Sounds like trying to order from In-n-Out. The unwritten thing is a known thing, so why not just write it down?

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How pervasive does altering the ball have to become before we start to be suspicious if the ball doesn't look altered?

Cricket is a bit different to baseball because polishing the ball is an accepted part of the game. By polishing one side of the ball and allowing the other-side to naturally grow dull you alter the flight characteristics of the ball - it's how you can achieve movement through the air or 'swing'. The ball is rarely replaced - it is very much intended for the condition of the ball to deteriorate over the course of an i…

At school, where such rules were not enforced, some kids used hair gel on one side of the ball. Most were too unskilled to really exploit it but a good bowler could achieve what felt like a metre of savage sideways swing, enough that a ball that started out looking like a wide would finish up whistling past the ears of the hapless batsman.

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#19

Here is my take. In long past times, baseballs were reused until warn out, and those that went into the stands were returned. This allowed the balls to get naturally bruised up, which inadvertently gave pitchers more (unpredictable) movement than today's clean, unused baseballs. Because of this, old pitchers may not have had to throw with as much elbow rotation as today's pitchers do to get effective levels of moveme…

the spitting one was odd to me, it seems totally natural. for the pine tar, I am with the pitchers again. if batters can use it to have better grip on their bats, seems totally logical for pitchers to do the same to their balls

Re: Pitchers Adulterating Baseballs

#20
post #11

Here is my take. In long past times, baseballs were reused until warn out, and those that went into the stands were returned. This allowed the balls to get naturally bruised up, which inadvertently gave pitchers more (unpredictable) movement than today's clean, unused baseballs. Because of this, old pitchers may not have had to throw with as much elbow rotation as today's pitchers do to get effective levels of moveme…

I think the pace they throw the ball at has to have something to do with it now too. Just in the last several years the number of pitchers throwing above 95 and above 100 seems to have dramatically increased. This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-fast-fastball-isnt-en... It could be that making it easier to throw tricky off speed pitch…

> "This page suggests the number of 95+ mph fastballs more than doubled in 10 years"

if true, pitchers have probably found a way to cheat which hasn't been discovered yet (not that batters aren't cheating either)

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