101–110 of 309 posts
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Current company knows his worth. New company doesn’t so your teammate has informational advantage and can negotiate a higher salary.
> A team I am on just lost a good engineer to another company Your analysis would be correct if they lost a bad engineer to a company giving him a 30k raise.
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If the market is going to give him that rate (assuming he can adequately perform the new job) that is his market value..
That is basically the same thing the poster you replied to said, except from the perspective of the current company and not the new one. The current company knows his performance. The hiring company is making an educated guess from maybe 10 hours of interaction and a resume.
This is a huge assumption that often times, probably more often than not, isn't true.
> the average software developer in Wellington NZ makes NZ$64k. We pay more than that, but when you become a remote company, people start looking for the $134k USD These are two different scales, so for help I will normalize them: $64,000 NZD = $43,641.60 USD $134,000 USD = $134,000 USD
I am very skeptical of that reported average. The average salary in Wellington, is NZ$59,649. Maybe get a new graduate for $50k.
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I think what's most telling is what you did after that meeting. Did you quit and go work elsewhere? Don't get me wrong, I don't think companies should be so short sighted as to nickel and dime employees. But your one true source of leverage is to actually get up and leave.
There's a lot more leverage than that depending on the particulars of the story. It may have been OP that identified a saving that could be made and their leverage is a future unwillingness to identify such things. Maybe they'll stop questioning things and "code to spec" in future. Maybe they'll ignore those erroneous errors they notice throughout the day and wait for a bug report in production. Companies that don't…
Same thing if your next advice is to stop working 60 hours a week and overtime. This was a huge mistake and you should never have done this in the first place.
I've always found it strange that companies don't give raises to current employees. A team I am on just lost a good engineer to another company offering him a $30k+ raise. He would have stayed if our company had even given him half of that. Instead, they let him go, and how will have to hire someone else, probably at that higher salary. So weird, and seems to happen a lot.
Current company knows his worth. New company doesn’t so your teammate has informational advantage and can negotiate a higher salary.
Or... they think they do. "Current company" is too amorphous. Direct manager and team mates may know value, but it's harder to make that judgement (or to believe someone making the case for it) when you're not in the trenches with that team.
May also be a situation where the new company is actually able to extract more value from the person than the previous company.
There's a lot of assumptions going on in some of the replies here. Old company is going down the pan - regardless of how much value an individual can bring, if the company is incapable of translating that in to market value, you'll never get the raise (and may not have a job soon). New company - taking the same person with the same skills - may be able to extract much more market value from that same person.
Right now I'm struggling with whether or not to leave. I'm currently at a well-known company, and I'm uncharacteristically happy because my WLB is the best it's been in my career. However, I'm getting a bit bored and I also know I could make at least $50,000 a year more if I leave. Hell, even the new engineers joining my company at the same level are making more than I am. But the culture and pay at my company is jus…
What if you went to your manager, or whoever you feel is the right person, asked if you could speak one on one, and said... "I really love working at this company. The work is interesting, I love the people, the culture, . But I also know I could be making X if I went elsewhere. I love the work I'm doing, and I want to keep doing it here, but I also don't want to be leaving money on the table. What can we do?" This p…
There is a very simple reason your employer doesn't give big raises to existing employees: they know that a year ago, you were happy with your salary. Why would you want a 30% raise today, no matter what the outside market says? You were fine last month, what changed between you and the employer? Nothing.
Of course, long term, if the market goes up a lot, people will be underpaid and eventually leave. If the market moves up, do use the parent's phrasing. Don't interview (too aggressive). Just state the fact that the market has moved and you want to stay.
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What if you went to your manager, or whoever you feel is the right person, asked if you could speak one on one, and said... "I really love working at this company. The work is interesting, I love the people, the culture, . But I also know I could be making X if I went elsewhere. I love the work I'm doing, and I want to keep doing it here, but I also don't want to be leaving money on the table. What can we do?" This p…
I wish I worked at your firm. I once worked at a place and saved them millions in one year. At the yearly review, they said "well, that was some good work". That was the entire review. When I said "how about giving me an extra 1k a year (a bit less than others who had been there for a while were getting) I was told we had no extra cash. Well... wow, I just saved you like 1.5 million dollars. I am not asking for that,…
I left that place and immediately made nearly 20k more per year, then next job another 25k, then another 20k and I'm now in a job where I get to set my own hours, work from home and get paid stupid amounts of money getting raises and bonuses I haven't even asked for. To this day I have no idea how I've gotten so damned lucky.
Some general things that have helped me, and believe me I started from self taught tech skills, poor people skills, and massive introversion, so chances are you're smarter than I am and able to do just the same if you're willing to put in the work.
1. Luck - not much you can do to get lucky, but you can stack the deck in your favor by making sure you're ready when your opportunity does come.
2. Know what you're looking for in advance. That means the salary, type of work environment, and position you're working for. If you're comfortable where you are position wise figure out how you're going to improve your skill set through either diversification or specialization. Diversification makes you more useful at startups, specialization at mid to mature companies. Being comfortable means you're not growing which means you're losing value from an employee standpoint because you're probably forgetting something every day.
3. Know how much you're looking for. Don't value yourself low. one way I heard which seemed to help was to start saying amounts in a mirror. When you got to a point where you thought it was silly ask for slightly higher. Worst they can say is no and you've lost nothing.
4. Be willing to walk when opportunity comes. Nothing says you're serious like walking away. Let's be honest if you're unhappy enough that you're looking externally, it's probably a sign you're ready to go anyways.
5. Be able to sell yourself. Know your past achievements and be able to show how your past achievements will be able to help the company make more money. Know what the company desires to do, who their current customers are, and what they're excited about. Nothing impresses a new company more than a prospective employee who has done their homework. I've literally had people come into interviews being told they would be asked about the company and been unprepared, they didn't get the job. For your current company, show them how you want to grow into a role that can give them more for the money. Being excited about your company and what they do is genuinely hard to find. Some jobs make it nearly impossible to do so, especially mature or more often dying companies.
6. People skills, people skills, people skills. If you suck at talking to people, get better. Toastmasters is good for speeches, church meetings for general conversations, friends groups, networking events, etc. If you're looking for step by step instructions look into the classic "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie. It's old but it's a classic. Vanessa Van Edwards is younger but also provides really great information on learning to read people's body language, something which doesn't come naturally to me. Even if you're not in sales or management read books aimed at them. Chet Holmes is solid for sales information, James Collins for management. Knowing how your salespeople bring in clients and how your management thinks means you can often be the person who is solving their problems before they come up. Good salespeople and managers take care of people who make their lives easier, but they also lean on them more. Just never make the mistake of thinking that because they like you, compliment you, or take care of you that you're their friend. Unless a relationship exists outside of work it's a work relationship. Good salespeople and managers can make you feel great even when they are screwing you over.
7. Start doing good things for other people before they do them for you. If you know someone in your network is out of work and you're not looking but a recruiter sends you a job that you know they might fit, send it along. If someone left a job for different pastures, leave them a genuine recommendation or send them a personal message letting them know how much you appreciated them. People too often don't let others know how much they appreciate good people, and no one hates being genuinely appreciated.
I think I've blabbered on for long enough, but these are just a few of the guidelines I've worked through to get to have an amazing job. Hope you find yours. :)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish I worked at your firm. I once worked at a place and saved them millions in one year. At the yearly review, they said "well, that was some good work". That was the entire review. When I said "how about giving me an extra 1k a year (a bit less than others who had been there for a while were getting) I was told we had no extra cash. Well... wow, I just saved you like 1.5 million dollars. I am not asking for that,…
Thanks, that's a perspective I never got. Shows how lucky I've been at the places I've worked. (Or perhaps, how underpaid I was at the time!) I should also mention that before these conversations, I had also been interviewing with a few different companies and gotten offers, so I knew those numbers were real and I really, truly, was ready to leave if they said no. But I genuinely wanted to keep working there and be m…
People on HN do better jobs because many live in the major tech cities, where there are more and better jobs. In big part linked to the big companies and the high cost of living.
In most cases of raises, the employee could have got much better by moving to somewhere else. It's easier to give a few percent raise per year or one time than it is to match the 50-100% raise that high performer could get.
If you change jobs often enough, you will eventually end up in a good company with a good pay, where you can stay.
Right now I'm struggling with whether or not to leave. I'm currently at a well-known company, and I'm uncharacteristically happy because my WLB is the best it's been in my career. However, I'm getting a bit bored and I also know I could make at least $50,000 a year more if I leave. Hell, even the new engineers joining my company at the same level are making more than I am. But the culture and pay at my company is jus…
Saying things like "I could make 50k more at blah" seems to be taken so lightly these days. I would party/panic/freak out like I won the lotto if you told me I could make 50k more somewhere else. 50k... do you have any idea what that does to your future earnings? Your 401k/retirement? Hell, even if you live the same as now, sticking 25K in the bank every year is worth a whole heaping spoonful of whatever hell they co…
Mostly (though not exclusively) from high-paying high-cost of living US metropolitan areas.
I've always found it strange that companies don't give raises to current employees. A team I am on just lost a good engineer to another company offering him a $30k+ raise. He would have stayed if our company had even given him half of that. Instead, they let him go, and how will have to hire someone else, probably at that higher salary. So weird, and seems to happen a lot.
Companies give raises. Have you or anyone you know never gotten a raise?
Actual real terms raises that mean you can buy more are quite rare, especially outside of tech. Usually the only way to get a real raise is by changing job, either through promotion or by moving to a different company.