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Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

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Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#41

Post by kps »

ch_123 wrote: post #26
dfox wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC original 3270 keyboard had solenoid that physically prevented user from pressing any key when the terminal was busy and would not be able to register the key press.

The solenoid on the one which I have (a 3278 keyboard) is separate to the keys. It is true that the solenoid will not operate when the terminal is unable to accept any key press, but it does not impede the operation of the keys themselves. To the best of my knowledge, the only IBM keyboards that could flat out prevent the keys from being pressed were ones based on the Selectric typewriter mechanism, such as the 2741

In order to prevent two keys being active simultaneously, the Selectric had a linear track full of steel balls running from side to side, with just enough free space to allow a metal tab from a single key to enter. So locking the keyboard was just a matter of having a solenoid occupy the free space.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#42

Post by wtallis »

theoh wrote: post #36
theoh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_caps

That was an unobjectionable comment, so I guess the downvotes are a stimulus to try to get me to write more. The Wikipedia page for the TI-99 mentions the "small capitals" but does not link to the page I linked to. So some people, at least, who read that page won't get the reference to the typographic tradition (if that's what it is). A larger issue is the idea that, by choosing a small caps style for their font, TI…

That Wikipedia page you linked to explains that small caps are used almost exclusively to emphasize or distinguish text from text set using the usual mix of uppercase and lowercase letters. So pointing out that small caps are a well-established typographical practice does nothing to explain what TI was thinking by including small caps but not lowercase. And no matter how innocuous you consider it, it is clear that the decision strikes many users as odd, and that it comes across as something of an unattractive technological limitation, akin to the then-recent systems that only supported uppercase.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#43

Post by theoh »

wtallis wrote: post #42
theoh wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was an unobjectionable comment, so I guess the downvotes are a stimulus to try to get me to write more. The Wikipedia page for the TI-99 mentions the "small capitals" but does not link to the page I linked to. So some people, at least, who read that page won't get the reference to the typographic tradition (if that's what it is). A larger issue is the idea that, by choosing a small caps style for their font, TI…

That Wikipedia page you linked to explains that small caps are used almost exclusively to emphasize or distinguish text from text set using the usual mix of uppercase and lowercase letters. So pointing out that small caps are a well-established typographical practice does nothing to explain what TI was thinking by including small caps but not lowercase. And no matter how innocuous you consider it, it is clear that th…

It's slightly complicated, but the smaller caps of "small caps" are the lower case. As Wikipedia says, setting text in small caps is "technically not a case-transformation". In those days it would not be surprising that a system would only have one font.

I don't know about the Silent 700's font, but it looks to me like this probably wasn't a mistaken case of the DRY principle: after all, the TI-99's lower case letters are still stored as separate bitmaps (they are reproduced in an image here: http://electrickeet.com/line-itfont.html).

So it is clear, at least, that they had the storage for lower case, and for whatever reason decided to go with a small caps font. It isn't a result of a simple limitation that they hacked around by scaling bitmaps or something like that. I wouldn't like to speculate about what fraction of users found it odd at the time.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#44

Post by pushpop »

reaperducer wrote: post #39
edejong wrote: post #2

Similar project is cool-retro-term [1] although I think the defaults are a little over the top. [1] https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term

cool-retro-term is my go-to terminal program for quick projects that don't need multiple panes. It freaks out the IT guys and our workspace consultants, which is a bonus. The only downside is that on macOS it crashes on quit. But since I'm quitting it anyway, no harm done.

Why would cool-retro-term “freak out” IT professionals any more than a typical terminal emulator? Does “freak out” have some additional definition I’m unaware of?

Personally I found cool-retro-term lacked support for a few ANSI escape sequences I needed for tmux to work quite how I liked which prevented me using it as my daily $TERM. I’m sure with a bit of effort I could have gotten it working but it was an effort not work making when there’s literally dozens of other ${TERM}s I could use and the only thing in favour of cool-retro-term is novelty.

I do really like how cool-retro-term is an expansion of the acronym CRT. Clever project naming.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#45

Post by reaperducer »

pushpop wrote: post #44
reaperducer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cool-retro-term is my go-to terminal program for quick projects that don't need multiple panes. It freaks out the IT guys and our workspace consultants, which is a bonus. The only downside is that on macOS it crashes on quit. But since I'm quitting it anyway, no harm done.

Why would cool-retro-term “freak out” IT professionals any more than a typical terminal emulator? Does “freak out” have some additional definition I’m unaware of? Personally I found cool-retro-term lacked support for a few ANSI escape sequences I needed for tmux to work quite how I liked which prevented me using it as my daily $TERM. I’m sure with a bit of effort I could have gotten it working but it was an effort no…

Why would cool-retro-term “freak out” IT professionals any more than a typical terminal emulator?

Because a typical terminal emulator doesn't make the brand new monitor they just installed look like it's broken.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#46

Post by pushpop »

reaperducer wrote: post #45
pushpop wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would cool-retro-term “freak out” IT professionals any more than a typical terminal emulator? Does “freak out” have some additional definition I’m unaware of? Personally I found cool-retro-term lacked support for a few ANSI escape sequences I needed for tmux to work quite how I liked which prevented me using it as my daily $TERM. I’m sure with a bit of effort I could have gotten it working but it was an effort no…

Why would cool-retro-term “freak out” IT professionals any more than a typical terminal emulator? Because a typical terminal emulator doesn't make the brand new monitor they just installed look like it's broken.

Cool-retro-term doesn’t make a brand new monitor look like it’s broken. The effect of CRT isn’t even remotely what an LCD looks like when it fails.

So I’m guessing when you say “IT professionals freak out” what you actually mean is “idiot desktop support engineers who think anyone who uses the command line are ‘l33t h4xx0rz’”.

In which case they’d have a hernia if they saw the kind of workspace a typical non-poser runs.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#47

Post by reaperducer »

pushpop wrote: post #46
reaperducer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would cool-retro-term “freak out” IT professionals any more than a typical terminal emulator? Because a typical terminal emulator doesn't make the brand new monitor they just installed look like it's broken.

Cool-retro-term doesn’t make a brand new monitor look like it’s broken. The effect of CRT isn’t even remotely what an LCD looks like when it fails. So I’m guessing when you say “IT professionals freak out” what you actually mean is “idiot desktop support engineers who think anyone who uses the command line are ‘l33t h4xx0rz’”. In which case they’d have a hernia if they saw the kind of workspace a typical non-poser ru…

So I’m guessing when you say “IT professionals freak out” what you actually mean is “idiot desktop support engineers who think anyone who uses the command line are ‘l33t h4xx0rz’”.

You guessed wrong, since they're used to seeing me use iTerm all over my other monitors.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#48

Post by pushpop »

reaperducer wrote: post #47
pushpop wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool-retro-term doesn’t make a brand new monitor look like it’s broken. The effect of CRT isn’t even remotely what an LCD looks like when it fails. So I’m guessing when you say “IT professionals freak out” what you actually mean is “idiot desktop support engineers who think anyone who uses the command line are ‘l33t h4xx0rz’”. In which case they’d have a hernia if they saw the kind of workspace a typical non-poser ru…

So I’m guessing when you say “IT professionals freak out” what you actually mean is “idiot desktop support engineers who think anyone who uses the command line are ‘l33t h4xx0rz’”. You guessed wrong, since they're used to seeing me use iTerm all over my other monitors.

That doesn’t prove my statement wrong.

By the way, smooth move using an alternative account to circumvent the HN rule disallowing negative voting on replies. However I suggest next time you do this, you vary your timings a little. You make it obvious when every time my karma goes down is seconds after you comment.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#49

Post by dang »

pushpop wrote: post #48
reaperducer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I’m guessing when you say “IT professionals freak out” what you actually mean is “idiot desktop support engineers who think anyone who uses the command line are ‘l33t h4xx0rz’”. You guessed wrong, since they're used to seeing me use iTerm all over my other monitors.

That doesn’t prove my statement wrong. By the way, smooth move using an alternative account to circumvent the HN rule disallowing negative voting on replies. However I suggest next time you do this, you vary your timings a little. You make it obvious when every time my karma goes down is seconds after you comment.

We just had to warn you about personal attacks a few days ago. If you continue to cross into incivility on HN, we're going to end up having to ban you. Could you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this?

Your comment also broke the guideline that asks you not to complain about votes. If you think you see abuse on HN, email us at hn@ycombinator.com instead. I looked at the data on your comments upthread and found no evidence of abuse. Everyone who voted was a long-established user.

Re: Raster CRT Typography According to DEC

#50

Post by pushpop »

dang wrote: post #49
pushpop wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t prove my statement wrong. By the way, smooth move using an alternative account to circumvent the HN rule disallowing negative voting on replies. However I suggest next time you do this, you vary your timings a little. You make it obvious when every time my karma goes down is seconds after you comment.

We just had to warn you about personal attacks a few days ago. If you continue to cross into incivility on HN, we're going to end up having to ban you. Could you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and fix this? Your comment also broke the guideline that asks you not to complain about votes. If you think you see abuse on HN, email us at hn@ycombinator.com instead. I looked at the data on yo…

I wasn’t making a personal attack against the OP. Just disagreeing with their assessment of “freak out”.

Also being a long established user doesn’t invalidate my point about it being an alias account. It can’t be a fresh account because those don’t have the necessary karma to -ve vote

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