On Being a Free Software Maintainer • Hacker News Board

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#111

Post by gnomewascool » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

meruru wrote: post #70

mikekchar wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feel free :-) I warn you that the only way I had the courage to write it was that I drank a considerable amount of nihonshu (Japanese sake). It was pink. The label said that the pink colour was a natural result of the kouji (aspergillus oryzae). I'm skeptical :-) But, in all seriousness, I've been thinking about it a lot and really the main thing, I think, is for everyone (even the maintainer) to avoid drama. If you…

You should definitely host this document somewhere.

Well, if you find it sufficiently fun. :)

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#112

Post by teddyh » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:50 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #103

jryb wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the downvotes for this. I feel that by making something public and open source, there is an implicit assumption (unless otherwise stated) that the software is worth sharing. The problem is that this puts what I consider the right amount of responsibility squarely in the middle of a continuum: library authors shouldn't be totally free of obligations to others, but the insane abuse that people level…

This rule accepted in general would mean that all students who put their homework on github are doing something wrong. Or that all professionals who just play around technology or mini projects are required to keep them secret until they are totally sure they will maintain it forever. That is just not workable and overly limited. While owner can not expect gratitude, the "I’ll work on this when I want, however much I…

Unlike what you seem to indicate, projects do imply a level of expected support and continual development by their projected image as given by their web pages, documentation, etc. If a developer/maintainer does not uphold this implied promise, users have a right to feel bamboozled.

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#113

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #110

detaro wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the article writer became "maintainer" by virtue of being something like "the only person that currently cares". Should they have rejected access to the code and ceased contributions at that point, to not be irresponsible years later?

They might have taken over the role of maintainer, but if the level of involvment which the project required was too much for them, it would have been their duty as maintainer to declare the project moribund until a more active maintainer could be found. To keep the project active and looking alive is to mislead users and implicitly promise a level of support and development which they know they cannot uphold.

[deleted]

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#114

Post by dennisgorelik » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

dingallero wrote: post #4

This has been discussed before and it has been true for me as well. I don't have a large, super-popular package I maintain, but several lesser known ones, some of which I wrote, and several of which I just adopted and passively became a maintainer over time. At some point the pressure from the community made me pass the magical threshold between fun/useful/rewarding and downright chore. It has permanently changed my…

> You'll be criticized irregardless.

You are implying that criticism is bad. But criticism is not bad. Negative feedback is, usually, eve more useful than positive feedback.

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#115

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:59 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #110

detaro wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the article writer became "maintainer" by virtue of being something like "the only person that currently cares". Should they have rejected access to the code and ceased contributions at that point, to not be irresponsible years later?

They might have taken over the role of maintainer, but if the level of involvment which the project required was too much for them, it would have been their duty as maintainer to declare the project moribund until a more active maintainer could be found. To keep the project active and looking alive is to mislead users and implicitly promise a level of support and development which they know they cannot uphold.

[deleted]

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#116

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 9:25 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #109

enraged_camel wrote: post #54

I use a lot of open source packages, and I’m immensely grateful to anyone who maintains one. I also want to mention that I donate whenever the option is available. However, here is my personal opinion that will most likely get downvoted to oblivion: if you are putting a tool out there for others to use (not just software but any tool), then you are responsible for its wellbeing and maintenance, regardless of whether…

I think I understand you completely, but I also think I know why you were downvoted. The problem is the implied promise of having a software project page on something like GitHub with descriptions, documentation, etc. This, in my mind, and probably yours too, implies a promise of future development, maintenance or at least security bug fixes. When such things are not forthcoming in a manner one might reasonably expec…

[deleted]

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#117

Post by hutzlibu » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 9:26 PM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #95

I am running a free job posting website (postjobfree.com). Every day I receive about a hundred emails with various requests, questions and complaints (from recruiters, job seekers and operators of other job boards). Some of these emails are negative or even rude. But that negativity does not really bother me. I evaluate level of "Negativity" in the email to understand the nature of the request better (Is the request…

You run a comercial website, with a "free to use part" but want people to use the premium part.

Nothing wrong with that, but that has nothing to do with a FOSS maintainer doing his work in his free time and getting insults for it.

So if you enjoy insults and like to filter them out for technical feedback, good for you. But you make money with it. (I asume)

So please advertise somewhere else.

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#118

Post by rsyring » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #36

vinceguidry wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bible. Wish I could offer something more accessible. But a better read on the nature of hells, belief, faith, false gods, and how to find a true path to salvation can't be found. Haven't picked mine up in awhile. Should probably fix that. I spend my time these days writing rather than reading. Chasing my own muse. Quora is my usual outlet, though I'll occasionally feel compelled to comment on HN.

Having wasted a significant portion of my youth on said book I would not recommend it. The whole thing boils down to devoting yourself to a (IMO) demanding, bigoted, homophobic, and imaginary being. Whatever crumbs of truth (treat others like you want to be treated, life is short, etc.) included are better expressed elsewhere and without all the baggage.

Having wasted a significant portion of my youth pursuing whatever I wanted only to later realize I was enslaved to the very things I thought I was pursuing freely, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Bible as that which gave me true freedom.

Many of it's teachings are certainly counter-cultural. And it does take time and effort to learn and interpret wisely. But I find much in the Bible that is very applicable to life today and, arguably more important, applicable to the life to come.

As for the imaginary part, there are plenty of rational reasons to consider the claims of the Bible. This isn't a bad start:

http://www.veritas.org/how-does-christianity-measure-up/

A lot of it boils down to your own personal presuppositions and worldview. For more advanced treatment that gets to the heart of how we know what we know and how our presuppositions affect what we think we know:

https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Knowledge-God-Theology-Lords...

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#119

Post by frosted-flakes » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

pytester wrote: post #83

mikekchar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely not proven yet, but I'm convinced: ask for it. Make it easy for people to pay you. Find a way (and reason) for people to invoice you for payment. Tell people that you expect payment even if they don't legally have to pay. Make it part of the "community ethos" that payment is a natural and good part of working with the community. Free as in freedom, not beer. Ask for beer and give freedom in return. I have…

>Make it easy for people to pay you. There's definitely a startup opportunity for this - making it super easy to receive payment as an OSS developer (either as a business or sole developer) and making it easy for businesses to pay. If I saw a new issue on github and it came from a corporate "OSS gold account member" which potentially comes with $$$ attached I'd be much more inclined to implement it. As it is my motiv…

This could be a part of GitHub. Imagine there was a '$' button beside the star button, and each time you clicked it you gave one dollar to the maintainer of the repo, with a counter beside it. The '$ counter' would only be visible to the user and the repo maintainers.

GitHub is the de facto hub of open source/free software, and if it was as easy to donate to a repo as it is to star it, I imagine more people would do it.

Re: On Being a Free Software Maintainer

#120

Post by webmaven » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #88

jryb wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the downvotes for this. I feel that by making something public and open source, there is an implicit assumption (unless otherwise stated) that the software is worth sharing. The problem is that this puts what I consider the right amount of responsibility squarely in the middle of a continuum: library authors shouldn't be totally free of obligations to others, but the insane abuse that people level…

I disagree with the idea that software is only worth sharing if it is updated. I've found plenty of value in code that hasn't seen a single commit after initial release. I'd consider it a bad thing if the people that made it available to me got shamed into not publishing it.

Was the value you found use-value (ie. the software did something useful) or was the value to you more along the lines of "instructional" (ie. you learned something useful from studying it)?

Because I've found that use-value often decays (or bit-rots) pretty quickly in unmaintained software, sometimes due to nothing more than changing packaging requirements.