A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings • Hacker News Board

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#131

Post by TheCoelacanth » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

mftrhu wrote: post #28

pwg wrote: post #19

The privacy concerns here are huge, but the much more direct issue is from this quote from the article: > the same programs failed to identify darker-skinned women up to one-third of the time. A one-third failure rate means that on average, for every three times you try to return home, you are likely to have the system fail to identify you at least once. Being locked out, as a resident, one-third of the number of tim…

Hell, even a failure rate of one in a hundred would become unacceptable pretty quickly - going out multiple times a day is not unusual. One in three is beyond ridiculous.

Being locked out of your home one in three times is an eviction. The landlord isn't even making a pretense at honoring the lease at that point.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#132

Post by bilbo0s » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:18 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #116

pwg wrote: post #19

The privacy concerns here are huge, but the much more direct issue is from this quote from the article: > the same programs failed to identify darker-skinned women up to one-third of the time. A one-third failure rate means that on average, for every three times you try to return home, you are likely to have the system fail to identify you at least once. Being locked out, as a resident, one-third of the number of tim…

I have to wonder what the legalities would be here of having a handyman come and remove the front door lock after being locked out at night or the like.

I'm pretty sure that would be illegal in most places. What you have to do is call the management company. It sucks, but I would just advise darker skinned people, who this is likely to be an issue for, to rent only in places without this sort of system. Being locked out once out of every three times you come home is not really tenable.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#133

Post by jib » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:19 PM UTC

Cpoll wrote: post #91

C14L wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clone it to a sticker and send it to you via mail. So they have a database full of addresses together with their digital keys? What could possibly go wrong...

To be honest, not a lot, they only let you past the building door. So as a thief, I can: A. Scrub through a hypothetical leak of all that data, or B. Tailgate someone (even in security-conscious buildings this isn't much harder than following someone while carrying a box in both hands) Locks are for honest people.

Until you live in an apartment complex that has eliminated keys. My place is all keyfobs (except for the mailbox).

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#134

Post by Symbiote » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:23 PM UTC

5555624 wrote: post #55

envy2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably this would fail the same way in a no power situation as the ubiquitous RFID fob systems.

Which locks the building down? I've lived in two buildings with a key fob entry system and a loss of power means the doors are locked until someone exits and props them open. Management didn't care since you could get out in case of a fire.

I "rescued" the owner and waitress of the restaurant I live above last week.

Unusually, the power went out at about 00:15. I got home at 00:30, and saw them in the courtyard. They'd taken the rubbish out, but couldn't get back into any part of the building with their RFID fob.

I have a fob plus actual keys.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#135

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:24 PM UTC

5555624 wrote: post #55

envy2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably this would fail the same way in a no power situation as the ubiquitous RFID fob systems.

Which locks the building down? I've lived in two buildings with a key fob entry system and a loss of power means the doors are locked until someone exits and props them open. Management didn't care since you could get out in case of a fire.

[deleted]

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#136

Post by mindslight » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:25 PM UTC

5555624 wrote: post #55

envy2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably this would fail the same way in a no power situation as the ubiquitous RFID fob systems.

Which locks the building down? I've lived in two buildings with a key fob entry system and a loss of power means the doors are locked until someone exits and props them open. Management didn't care since you could get out in case of a fire.

The check that is sorely missing from our society is an attitude of packing a cordless angle grinder on snowy days.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#137

Post by komali2 » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:25 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #57

I live in a building with plenty of shady-looking people coming and going and I wouldn’t mind something like this. I’m sure the tenants who have kids wouldn’t mind it either. It would be a problem for food deliveries though.

>shady looking

What's shady look like?

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#138

Post by Agathos » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

mLuby wrote: post #12

abhinai wrote: post #4

As a computer engineer, I get excited to see latest technology being applied to our every day lives. I can't wait to see a facial recognition system in action somewhere. On the other hand, it is hard to disagree with this article. Getting photographed everyday or perhaps several times in a single day could quickly start feeling like a huge violation of privacy. All the security cameras in this building make things ev…

100% agree. Relatedly, does a landlord have the right to know when you are in your home? Because that's a side effect of this (which could already be possible by monitoring things like electrical usage). Asking in both legal and ethical senses (which I expect are different).

Keeping your name on the lease and then subleasing it under the table is one of the classic scams when rent control is involved. I can understand where the landlord would want to know who is actually using it.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#139

Post by FakeComments » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #119

ohazi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't care about color. Dark faces reflect less light, making them more challenging to photograph well. If you have less light illuminating a scene, you'll have more noise and less contrast/dynamic range in the image. You need these things to extract features reliably. It's physics, not racial bias.

"It would take more development time, so we didn't do it" is not a sufficient excuse for discriminating against one racial group.

But we allow that kind of discrimination based on physical characteristics all the time.

Why is it an acceptable basis to discriminate on height, but not melanin content?

Because there’s a ton of “one size fits all” products which don’t fit the ends of the bell curve, and reflect the choice of manufacturer to not serve all body types.

I think it’s a poor choice for a door lock, but I’m not sure I a priori think it’s unacceptable for a product to not work for some (~10%) portion of the population — especially when it reflects an engineering reality (skin reflectivity; feature sharpness), and not choice.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#140

Post by komali2 » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 8:28 PM UTC

Any good faith I had for the landlord walking into the article was obliterated when I read about how they reacted when tenants met in the lobby to discuss the upcoming change:

>In any event, the letter went on to say that while some tenants complied when a security guard asked residents to disperse, at least one did not: “Ms. Johnnie Mae Robinson stated this was her building and she will stay there. Let me make something clear, this is not your building, you are a resident of our building.”

Law says tenants can hang around in lobbies all they want. Whoever the landlord is, is an asshole, and I wouldn't trust their motives further than I can throw my own head.