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A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#51

Post by vetinari »

gist wrote: post #25
mLuby wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. Relatedly, does a landlord have the right to know when you are in your home? Because that's a side effect of this (which could already be possible by monitoring things like electrical usage). Asking in both legal and ethical senses (which I expect are different).

Nothing to prevent owner of a building (landlord or other person/entity) from installing a camera and taking a picture of everyone entering the building (outside the door). [1] Inside (legally) maybe the same no expectation or privacy in the lobby of a public building. The end result of the landlord knowing when you are in your home does not change that. [1] Same principle that allows you to photograph the police out…

At least in EU, that's much more complicated.

If you have a camera that has any publicly available (not just public, also private-but-unfenced) place in it's FoV, you must register with your local data protection office and fullfill all the requirements (you must prove, how you use, make available, securely store and dispose any recordings).

If you don't have any publicly available space in your FoV, you must have a written permission from all the co-owners (e.g. in an apartment house).

So basically it is only easy if you are sole owner of the property and only you (and your family) are using it. Anywhere with a shared space, it is an issue. For a landlord, that would get no-go quickly.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#52

Post by sithadmin »

closeparen wrote: post #46
alister wrote: post #10

One result of doors being controlled by facial recognition -- or any other kind of biometric system -- is that you have to get permission from someone whenever you have a regular visitor. You can no longer give your girlfriend, boyfriend, dog sitter, relatives, or whoever you wish a key or access card to your home. You have to enroll that person in the facial database. And whoever is doing the enrolling can ask for l…

This is already accomplished by having difficult-to-duplicate keys or fobs for the building entrance, which is a pretty standard feature of apartment living. And yes, some management companies are very stingy with extra fobs, as a control against having extra people in the unit who are not on the lease, or Airbnb, or whatever. You can tell you are in a building with a lot of illegal extra tenants when the keyfob-cont…

If nothing else: there's a market for fighting back against this. KeyMe kiosks (usually found at US supermarkets, pharmacies, etc.) have had RFID fob/card cloning capabilities for a while now. You scan the fob/card at the kiosk, then they clone it to a sticker and send it to you via mail.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#53

Post by tmp192489 »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #38
tmp192489 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not "so sure", though I think gaming the system with a long term sublet would be pretty unlikely because how likely are you to find a legit tenant who would go through you as the landlord instead of the actual landlord for a luxury rental. It's more complicated than actually living in the unit and then staying with a partner or friend if you can rent it out a few days/week when you can command a good rate.

Criminal histories, eviction records, poor credit....lots of reasons to sublet instead of going to the landlord.

ok - i mean it doesn't have to be one or the other. If I were subleasing a place I wouldn't want a tenant who had terrible credit either though. But could be both. I'm just hypothesizing like everyone else.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#54

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tmp192489 wrote: post #23
jen20 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you so sure that it's not aiming to catch people who get a rent-stabilised apartment and then long-term sublet it at market rate?

I'm not "so sure", though I think gaming the system with a long term sublet would be pretty unlikely because how likely are you to find a legit tenant who would go through you as the landlord instead of the actual landlord for a luxury rental. It's more complicated than actually living in the unit and then staying with a partner or friend if you can rent it out a few days/week when you can command a good rate.

> I'm not "so sure", though I think gaming the system with a long term sublet would be pretty unlikely because how likely are you to find a legit tenant who would go through you as the landlord instead of the actual landlord for a luxury rental. It's more complicated than actually living in the unit and then staying with a partner or friend if you can rent it out a few days/week when you can command a good rate.

But it's arbitrage. The market rate is $4000 but the current tenant is paying $1000 and subletting for $3500. The inconvenience is worth $500/month, and you can't just go directly to the landlord to cut a better deal because the apartment is already "occupied" by the tenant paying $1000 who the landlord can't remove.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#55

Post by 5555624 »

envy2 wrote: post #39
jacques_chester wrote: post #14

It will be an interesting lawsuit when the power goes out during a snowstorm.

Presumably this would fail the same way in a no power situation as the ubiquitous RFID fob systems.

Which locks the building down? I've lived in two buildings with a key fob entry system and a loss of power means the doors are locked until someone exits and props them open. Management didn't care since you could get out in case of a fire.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#56

Post by scrollaway »

closeparen wrote: post #46
alister wrote: post #10

One result of doors being controlled by facial recognition -- or any other kind of biometric system -- is that you have to get permission from someone whenever you have a regular visitor. You can no longer give your girlfriend, boyfriend, dog sitter, relatives, or whoever you wish a key or access card to your home. You have to enroll that person in the facial database. And whoever is doing the enrolling can ask for l…

This is already accomplished by having difficult-to-duplicate keys or fobs for the building entrance, which is a pretty standard feature of apartment living. And yes, some management companies are very stingy with extra fobs, as a control against having extra people in the unit who are not on the lease, or Airbnb, or whatever. You can tell you are in a building with a lot of illegal extra tenants when the keyfob-cont…

In every apartment I've lived in with such difficult-to-duplicate keys (such as magnetic locks and what not), I've been ask whether I want a second set; and/or the owner told me to ask them should that ever be the case.

Not quite sure what's different with that situation from before, other than slightly cheaper keys.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#58

Post by envy2 »

5555624 wrote: post #55
envy2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably this would fail the same way in a no power situation as the ubiquitous RFID fob systems.

Which locks the building down? I've lived in two buildings with a key fob entry system and a loss of power means the doors are locked until someone exits and props them open. Management didn't care since you could get out in case of a fire.

Sure. But the point is it's not an issue that's in any way novel to this face recognition system.

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#59

Post by blfr »

alister wrote: post #10

One result of doors being controlled by facial recognition -- or any other kind of biometric system -- is that you have to get permission from someone whenever you have a regular visitor. You can no longer give your girlfriend, boyfriend, dog sitter, relatives, or whoever you wish a key or access card to your home. You have to enroll that person in the facial database. And whoever is doing the enrolling can ask for l…

You can't have unattended visitors. If you're there to let them in, they can visit as often as you like.

Basically, turning this from an apartment to more of a long term hotel. Is it a fair trade for a rent subsidy? Will it become standard in all rentals?

Re: A Landlord Wants Facial Recognition in Its Rent-Stabilized Buildings

#60

Post by nemothekid »

scrollaway wrote: post #56
closeparen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already accomplished by having difficult-to-duplicate keys or fobs for the building entrance, which is a pretty standard feature of apartment living. And yes, some management companies are very stingy with extra fobs, as a control against having extra people in the unit who are not on the lease, or Airbnb, or whatever. You can tell you are in a building with a lot of illegal extra tenants when the keyfob-cont…

In every apartment I've lived in with such difficult-to-duplicate keys (such as magnetic locks and what not), I've been ask whether I want a second set; and/or the owner told me to ask them should that ever be the case. Not quite sure what's different with that situation from before, other than slightly cheaper keys.

In my experience, in San Francisco, the owner will only give you a key for every name on the lease.
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