> Rich people find loopholes. Why not us? and rich corporations, too. indeed, why not us?
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Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
11–20 of 56 posts
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#12> Rich people find loopholes. Why not us? and rich corporations, too. indeed, why not us?
They don't find them, they pay to have them created.
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#13> Sovereigns, who sometimes call themselves “freemen” or “state citizens,” have no foundational document, but broadly they subscribe to an alternate version of American history. The tale can vary from sovereign to sovereign, but it goes roughly like this: At some point, a corporation secretly usurped the United States government, then went bankrupt and sought aid from international bankers. As collateral, the corpora…
The summary is slightly inadequate. There wasn't a corporation that usurped the government - the government made corporations of everyone
Basically it goes like this -
* SSN Act (created after the market crash) was created not only to provide faux "retirement" accounts but also "incorporate" every citizen of the country as a company upon birth.
* New baby John Smith instantiates company JOHN SMITH with account 123-45-6789
* ALL banking and financials go through your company account JOHN SMITH (check your checks, statements, loans). This included Liens, child support, taxes, alimony, etc.
* The line you sign your name on your check is not actually a line but very tiny "Authorized Representative" IE: John Smith is acting on behalf of JOHN SMITH
Why?
Because Feds didn't have the power to enact laws on individual citizens at the time. So they created companies out of every citizen which they can then force to pay into Social Security (among other things). This has evolved over time granting the government the power much more power over individuals through their "shell companies"
Some sovereign citizens claim to be able to gain sole control over their shell corporation JOHN SMITH and with that all government encroachments on their rights via liens and taxes are invalid.
Disclaimer: I have no position on this conspiracy theory just providing a better summary
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#14While I think the “sovereign movement” is pretty laughable in both theory and action - I think this article smacks of a total lack of even attempting to understand where these people are coming from. It’s the same people that write these articles that are surprised by the vitriol directed at the press or “how trump won”
The real question is what is driving these people to behave in such an irrational way? Might it be the ever increasing reach of government into people’s lives or the fact that many in positions of power in the US seem to think of that the people should serve the government rather than the government serving the people...
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#15> Sovereigns, who sometimes call themselves “freemen” or “state citizens,” have no foundational document, but broadly they subscribe to an alternate version of American history. The tale can vary from sovereign to sovereign, but it goes roughly like this: At some point, a corporation secretly usurped the United States government, then went bankrupt and sought aid from international bankers. As collateral, the corpora…
The summary is slightly inadequate. There wasn't a corporation that usurped the government - the government made corporations of everyone Basically it goes like this - * SSN Act (created after the market crash) was created not only to provide faux "retirement" accounts but also "incorporate" every citizen of the country as a company upon birth. * New baby John Smith instantiates company JOHN SMITH with account 123-45…
Feds didn't have power to enact laws on individual citizens, so they enacted a law on citizens to convert them to corporations? Puzzled.
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#16> Sovereigns, who sometimes call themselves “freemen” or “state citizens,” have no foundational document, but broadly they subscribe to an alternate version of American history. The tale can vary from sovereign to sovereign, but it goes roughly like this: At some point, a corporation secretly usurped the United States government, then went bankrupt and sought aid from international bankers. As collateral, the corpora…
Sovereigns start out by taking the classroom taught non-controversial idea of self determination to its logical extreme (every individual a country unto themselves). They don't need a foundational document because they believe that not answering to anyone is the natural state and therefore needs no deceleration. They further conclude that unnatural states (re: being born into someone else's rule) must be the result of some form of scam or trick. It has appeal because on the surface it is logical and congruent with things you learn in school.
Sovereign's go from extreme libertarian to crackpot in their explanation of why the world doesn't match their description of the natural free state. They invent an elaborate story of paper people and corporations and conspiracies to act as a sort of dark matter that makes their theory match reality. Soverign's can have wildly different takes on the dark matter while still agreeing on the core ideology.
Soverign's are basically just magical thinkers who happen to be libertarian.
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
The summary is slightly inadequate. There wasn't a corporation that usurped the government - the government made corporations of everyone Basically it goes like this - * SSN Act (created after the market crash) was created not only to provide faux "retirement" accounts but also "incorporate" every citizen of the country as a company upon birth. * New baby John Smith instantiates company JOHN SMITH with account 123-45…
Feds didn't have power to enact laws on individual citizens, so they enacted a law on citizens to convert them to corporations? Puzzled.
Citizens apply to SSN and a corporation is created for them - they are not forced to apply for one. Even to this day you can have a baby and not apply to SSN (increasing a good idea given the state of the program)
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#18This is kind of related, but someone told me yesterday that if you move to Puerto Rico you pay 0 federal personal income tax (note: if you live anywhere else in the world as a US citizen you still pay taxes on your income), and although they have their own taxation system it's basically 0 for newcomers because they want to attract investment.
If I want to sell a large chunk of capital gains in a single year, is there anything stopping me from moving to PR for 6months+1 day to a year and paying nothing on it?
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#19> Sovereigns, who sometimes call themselves “freemen” or “state citizens,” have no foundational document, but broadly they subscribe to an alternate version of American history. The tale can vary from sovereign to sovereign, but it goes roughly like this: At some point, a corporation secretly usurped the United States government, then went bankrupt and sought aid from international bankers. As collateral, the corpora…
The summary is slightly inadequate. There wasn't a corporation that usurped the government - the government made corporations of everyone Basically it goes like this - * SSN Act (created after the market crash) was created not only to provide faux "retirement" accounts but also "incorporate" every citizen of the country as a company upon birth. * New baby John Smith instantiates company JOHN SMITH with account 123-45…
Wow thank you for this concise explanation
Re: Sovereign Citizens Helped Swindle $1B from the Government They Disavow
#20> Sovereigns, who sometimes call themselves “freemen” or “state citizens,” have no foundational document, but broadly they subscribe to an alternate version of American history. The tale can vary from sovereign to sovereign, but it goes roughly like this: At some point, a corporation secretly usurped the United States government, then went bankrupt and sought aid from international bankers. As collateral, the corpora…
The summary is slightly inadequate. There wasn't a corporation that usurped the government - the government made corporations of everyone Basically it goes like this - * SSN Act (created after the market crash) was created not only to provide faux "retirement" accounts but also "incorporate" every citizen of the country as a company upon birth. * New baby John Smith instantiates company JOHN SMITH with account 123-45…
In the UK we sometimes get this stuff leaking in, which is really interesting to me as obviously it fits far more poorly (ie doesn't) with the legal-historical position here.
It happens with "wage gap" stuff too; people assume the USA wage gap stats apply to them here.
Oh yeah, and we get Trump supporters.
I think copyright is the only other area I can recall where people assume USA legislation applies (that's a pre-internet example), some think you have to add © to get copyright protection.