Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports • Hacker News Board

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#161

Post by sieabahlpark » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

xvf22 wrote: post #113

dragonwriter wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been around long enough that people accept it as normal, it serves no other purpose than to employ the unemployable and fill contractors' coffers It serves the purpose of removing liability for security from airlines, which is the major reason why it was created. It also serves the purpose of getting people used to progressively more intrusive government inspection during routine situations. > and it seems tha…

And yet if someone pockets a grenade in their rectum, the system fails.

Pretty sure that'll show up in the X-ray.

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#162

Post by TimTheTinker » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:07 AM UTC

orblivion wrote: post #99

bitreality wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the last 15+ years of air travel has been pretty safe in the US. To say the security has accomplished nothing is a stretch.

Cockpits are locked. Passengers are more vigilant. Bruce Schneier argues that this made all the difference. I don't know if it's right but it seems like not a stretch.

If anything, the most (or only) effective aspect of TSA checks are that they remind people to be vigilant. That may be the single best reason to continue using security theater, and a very strong argument in favor of keeping it.

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#163

Post by MertsA » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:07 AM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #12

bhawks wrote: post #9

Sadly it isn't even faster and requires more staff to operate. While the CT pilot program didn’t show reduced wait times at participating airports, the agency is expecting the technology will speed up lines as passengers and staffers get used to the new processes. Pekoske said he expected more staff to be needed initially as the new machines are put in place.

They're planning on using "AI" (Machine learning/Computer Vision) to slowly automate identification. They already do this now, but are limited by the quality of images. > For example, TSA is working to develop new algorithms that use machine learning approaches to discriminate between threats and benign objects, making the screening process more effective and efficient. Machine learning also offers a way to screen fo…

>With CT technology, we could see even more nuanced differences get flagged for unusual.

Good, that's more data to learn from and that would only be a minor issue for a short period of time for new devices. How often have you flown with something that other passengers hadn't likely have flown numerous times with before you? Even if the system picks out 0.1% of items for manual classification and training, that's still mountains and mountains of data for it to learn from and that would only take a tiny fraction of the time for airport security to identify compared to what they deal with now.

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#164

Post by aeternus » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:08 AM UTC

jonas21 wrote: post #138

btbuildem wrote: post #55

It's fascinating how the security theatre has gotten so big that now it basically just rolls forward under its own momentum. It's been around long enough that people accept it as normal, it serves no other purpose than to employ the unemployable and fill contractors' coffers, and it seems that no entity is able to stop or dismantle it.

It's also interesting to compare the prevailing opinion here on the TSA with that of the FAA, given that they serve the same industry. It appears that most people on HN feel that TSA regulations are pointless theater and should be weakened or eliminated, while the FAA is to be blamed for not exercising their regulatory power strongly enough (especially in light of the 737 MAX). Both agencies seem to follow a similar…

It is an interesting question. For the FAA, there is at least data that the number of fatal accidents has decreased, but it's hard to say for sure if that is due to the FAA.

http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#165

Post by aeternus » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:19 AM UTC

scruple wrote: post #97

jkqwzsoo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one point, I was travelling with my dad when the "shoes off" policy was relaxed (I think the shoes-off policy was relaxed a couple of weeks/months after the shoe bomber plot, but I can't recall exactly when -- and then it was put back permanently). "Agent": Sir, I recommend you take your shoes off. Dad: That's okay. I don't need to take my shoes off. "Agent": Sir, I'm going to need you to take your shoes off NOW!…

My father has stopped flying entirely. He's got a pacemaker and sometimes needs a cane and has a small list of medications that he legitimately needs to have with him at all times. He's diabetic, as well. Though he's not very overweight, he just doesn't move as well as he once did. TSA has made flying for him and people like him so incredibly difficult. He's just opted out. I don't blame him, either, though it does m…

I'd really like to see an analysis of the total number of passenger-minutes that are spent waiting in TSA lines. Divide that by the avg human lifespan and compare it to the number of people killed or injured by a terrorist attack.

When looked at like that, TSA costs more total lifetimes than have ever been taken through terrorist attacks.

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#166

Post by lsllc » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:20 AM UTC

donretag wrote: post #30

randomacct3847 wrote: post #14

Global entry/TSA pre-check is the best $100 you can spend (or not since the application fee is covered by a lot of premium credit cards) Keep shoes, keep laptop in bag, keep jacket on, way shorter line...I’m simulateously happy that not everyone is doing it and dumbfounded why anyone who travels more than a few times a year wouldn’t have it by now.

During my last flight out of JFK, I was told there is no TSA pre-check line, so I had to comply with the non pre-check rules. Global entry only covers the line for the passport check. You still need to due the next line for luggage (hello LAX) with everyone else.

If there's no Pre-Check line and you have Pre-check then they give you a big laminated card that says "Pre-Check" and you don't need to take shoes off / remove laptops belts etc.

Yeah, with Global Entry it's worth paying for the priority baggage otherwise you'll just spend 45 minutes waiting by yourself in the baggage claim area as the bag belts get clogged up and stop with the bags of the passengers still stuck in the passport lines.

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#167

Post by arcticbull » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:21 AM UTC

sieabahlpark wrote: post #161

xvf22 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet if someone pockets a grenade in their rectum, the system fails.

Pretty sure that'll show up in the X-ray.

Are they X-raying people now?

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#168

Post by provolone » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #114

robertAngst wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moment we experience government, we see the inefficiencies, yet some people want to see government get larger. I just cannot understand the logic.

It’s quite unfair to characterize the entirety of a huge organization based simply on certain functions at which it’s ineffective. Probably the most important thing it does is to keep the world from descending into a flaming fireball of constant wars between countries. There are literally thousands of other things at which it exce.

"Probably the most important thing it does is to keep the world from descending into a flaming fireball of constant wars between countries"

How many millions were killed by government in the 20th century? WW1, WWII, concentration camps, gulags, Mao's great leap forward, Vietnam, and the list goes on. War has been a constant for most of the 21st century.

There is a strong argument that much of the above would not have been feasible without large centralized states.

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#169

Post by provolone » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 6:50 AM UTC

gumby wrote: post #149

A dowsing rod would work as well except it would be hard to justify the fat contracts awarded to friends and former colleagues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651

'Some of the devices came with "detector cards" which were programmed, the fraudsters claimed, to detect everything from explosives, to human beings and dollar bills through concrete, water and from great distances'

Re: Laptops to Stay in Bags as TSA Brings New Technology to Airports

#170

Post by throwaway2048 » Sun, Mar 31, 2019, 7:07 AM UTC

bpanon wrote: post #45

T-hawk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I refuse to pay TSA for "solving" a problem that they created. More customers paying for pre-check incentivizes TSA to make the regular experience comparatively worse .

You either pay with time or money.

Pay for what exactly?