This must impact quality at some point. Either driver competence will decline or vehicle maintenance will be dangerously put off.
Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
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Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't really understand this argument. Uber didn't create the conditions causing these people not to be able to find better jobs. If Uber stopped "preying on" these people, would they be better off? It seems like they'd just be unemployed.
The main problem is that when the drivers accept work from Uber, they plan ahead to have the same pay years later, often buying car from mortgage. At that point the drivers have no choice but to work their ass off to be able to pay back the mortgage for lower and lower hourly net rates.
Okay, that is a fair point and perhaps there should be regulations to require Uber to disclose prominently to prospective drivers that their rate is not guaranteed. (Certainly it's already in fine print somewhere, but I'm not sure how clearly it's made to people).
However, that is not the point being made by the people quoted in this article, who are instead framing it in much more general terms that I might sum up as "any company not paying their employees a 'living wage' is unethical".
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#23My girlfriend tried out the Instacart gig for a while as she finally got her chronic low energy and fatigue addressed through B12 shots and wanted something to occupy her and give her a little extra spending money outside of what's budgeted.
That experience was absolutely demoralizing in terms of what she was able to actually make. Granted we live in a lower density city in the southeast so that result makes sense. But everything is very skewed toward the company in the case of Instacart...mileage reimbursement is from the store to the delivery...and you can be sent 10-15 miles from your point of origin to the store to purchase goods at.
I'm not surprised at all that Uber (and the gig economy as a whole) are squeezing their "independent contractor labor force" given that for them it's just a stepping stone toward a fully autonomous pipeline. The calculus here isn't toward establishing and maintaining a happy and committed workforce but bridging the gap between funding and profitability through autonomous solutions.
I don't know what the answer is but I couldn't imagine being in a position where one of the few viable options available for any sort of gainful employment was working as part of the "gig" economy.
edit: If that rate is intended to also cover fuel costs then fuel can easily eat up >10% of that $0.60/mi rate. Man.
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#24If I were Uber, or any ridesharing service, I'd be optimizing to pay driver's as much as possible. But that's just me.
OK, let's be concrete -- how much should they pay them?
Keep in mind that Uber currently operates at a loss.
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Isn’t the proper solution to find another job? If more people stopped driving for ridesharing companies the prices would rise to attract them back. Instead of assuming stupidity on one party's end, why not consider that there is a rational explanation for people's behavior? A very rational explanation is that for many people, driving for Uber beats not being able to pay bills, going hungry or being homeless.
I think that's the point of the argument you're replying to. Assuming Uber drivers are rational, it means they're better off driving with Uber than they would be otherwise. In which case, why does Uber attract so much criticism? I'd understand if you criticized the general economic/social system that causes shitty jobs to be people's best option, but why criticize specific actors within it that (1) didn't create it,…
> why does Uber attract so much criticism?
Because you're looking at the benefits in a vacuum. This is a company the skirts the law and intentionally blurs the line between employee and contractor for profit. It is entirely possible that driving for Uber is a rational choice for some people, and at the same time, that Uber is undervaluing their labor and taking advantage of them.
Similarly, in the past, people made the rational choice to sell themselves into indentured servitude. People also made the rational choice to sell their children to factory owners or into marriages for dowries.
Typically, if people had bargaining power through, say, collective action, there would be a corrective force when a sudden unilateral decision to reduce compensation by 25% is made.
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#26The IRS deduction for business vehicle use in 2019 is 58 cents per mile. So they have effectively reduced the per mile payment to the cost of operating the vehicle.
Seems like they are on the verge of turning driving for Uber into a reverse mortgage for your car.
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#27These people are complaining that they’re not being paid enough. Isn’t the proper solution to find another job? If more people stopped driving for ridesharing companies the prices would rise to attract them back. I don’t see why they are complaining when unemployment is at an all time low and they can find a job easily elsewhere. It sounds stupid.
A lot of people turn to jobs like Uber because they can't easily find a job. There are many people who desperately try for weeks or months to find employment. Companies like Uber love to prey on such people.
It's not prey, for a company, employee are cost. In extreme case, If it possible for a company to make money without employee, they should do it.
It's more of a government responsibility to take care its citizen well being.
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Isn’t the proper solution to find another job? If more people stopped driving for ridesharing companies the prices would rise to attract them back. Instead of assuming stupidity on one party's end, why not consider that there is a rational explanation for people's behavior? A very rational explanation is that for many people, driving for Uber beats not being able to pay bills, going hungry or being homeless.
I think that's the point of the argument you're replying to. Assuming Uber drivers are rational, it means they're better off driving with Uber than they would be otherwise. In which case, why does Uber attract so much criticism? I'd understand if you criticized the general economic/social system that causes shitty jobs to be people's best option, but why criticize specific actors within it that (1) didn't create it,…
people who haven't studied economics tend to think in moral terms that employees deserve a fair wage, and that it's wrong to exploit a desperate person. there may be lots of underlying reasons for these moral intuitions.
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#29If I were Uber, or any ridesharing service, I'd be optimizing to pay driver's as much as possible. But that's just me.
I agree. For Uber both riders and drivers are their customers. So keeping drivers happy and paying them well would pay off long term.
The long term plan for Uber was to replace drivers with self driving taxis. They were open about this for a long time, though after the recent problems with their self driving program (killing someone), I'm not sure how on track the plan is.
Re: Uber is dropping rates for drivers down from 80 cents/mile to 60 cents/mile
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. For Uber both riders and drivers are their customers. So keeping drivers happy and paying them well would pay off long term.
It’s a strange market dynamic though — if Uber pays drivers more per mile, you’d have more people that will want to drive for Uber. This would mean fewer rides (per driver), which would cause the average take-home pay for a driver to be lower. Which would cause drivers to leave, but everything would eventually equilibrate. But if you also lower the per-mile rate (and total take home pay), then drivers won’t have much…
> Maybe they aren’t doing well and are trying to get their books in order before their IPO?
That's probably what it is. They're still not profitable. They might be hoping that this will tip them over the edge into profitability just before the IPO. This is a 25% cut. That's likely to piss off many drivers and make them want to do something else, but they might be counting on the fact that they have a steady supply of new drivers. The new drivers will never have experienced the higher rate.