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Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

washingtonpost.com

81–90 of 176 posts

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#81

What I find sad about this (and other articles like this) is when the time comes within the article to lay out how to avoid burnout and stress, the list nevver includes ways to spend less time working. It's almost like an unspoken rule. I know that to recommend that is to take a chance with your livelihood but I really hope that we can at least stop blaming ourselves for the ridiculous work/life ratio we currently mu…

> the list never includes ways to spend less time working. It's almost like an unspoken rule.

Having just spent years outside the developed world and "working", I realize now that it is very much a spoken rule that "Thou shalt contribute to the economy".

> I know that to recommend that is to take a chance with your livelihood

That's a strange statement to make - it's like you are agreeing with the unspoken rule!

Working less absolutely doesn't take a chance with your livelihood. Step down to 4 days a week and drive a use car, don't have a TV and don't buy a new cell phone. At the end of the month you'll still have exactly the same money.

Step down to three days a week and just live in a smaller place and cut out more things - you'll still have exactly the same money.

There are no chances being taken there, just choices.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#82
post #34

Chronic stress sets you up for so many diseases, where burnout is just an early warning sign in comparison. Cancer, heart disease, stroke - you name it, chances are way higher that you get it if you are under chronic stress. Being a freelancer with 2 little kids, I‘ve had my fair share of stress (and burnout), but I‘m doing quite well nowadays. So, here‘s my personal anti-stress toolbox, from most effective to least…

stoic philosophy is no good for the mind. actually feeling your emotions is healthy. it's stuffing them down that makes people crazy or likewise numbed out. this is a difficult truth to understand.

vaping is a poison - clearly. addictions just keep you on the cycle.

real acceptance is powerful but it comes from a place of being connected to yourself which means your emotions. trying to suppress them isn't living since you are suppressing your very nature.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#83
post #49

What exhausts me is the people, the politics, the engineering egos, and the endless tolerance of companies to spend months of time working through previously obviously poor decisions and no tolerance for fixing the attitudes that created them. You’re called perfectionist engineer, regardless of how little effort or time it takes to correct the long term trajectory for your project. There’s little connection to clear…

Here here!

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#84
post #43
post #7

> Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread We are making employees lives miserable to reduce the need of planning for companies. Quite often management lacks the emotional maturity needed in their positions that hides normal mistakes that are part of the job, push for unrealistic schedules and sometimes even get into bulling as a way of getting what they want. 8 hours plus commute time, that has increased as ci…

For many the commute more than hits your daily stress quota, even before work contributes. So you can end up starting your day stressed, be that public transport sardines and delays or playing car upon roads so gridlocked that the terminology car park seems more apt. This to reach an office at some arbitrary time everybody seems to follow of the 8/9am start. Hence you have this sudden rush into cities around that tim…

> Working longer hours for 4 days, avoiding some of that peak commute stress ...

You're spot on here. The option to travel before/after the rush makes a world of difference.

I'm a freelancer/consultant and I've found that when I'm working as a "vendor", as opposed to a "temporary employee" working on-site during normal business hours, and only need to be on-site for meetings and such, I don't mind commuting at all and actually look forward to heading into the city. Novelty aside, I'm sure this is because I'm usually traveling before (heading to a cafe to prepare for an early meeting) or after (late meeting) the rush and can find a seat, have room to breath, etc. However, when I'm stuck doing the 8/9/10-5/6/7 commute, I find the train/subway ride (and myself) miserable.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#85

I remember sitting in rapture listening to a retired Chevron executive describing the way white collar work used to be. You basically got hired at a megacorp for life. If things didn't work out after the first couple of years, you were gently taken aside, given nothing new to do, and given a salary and an office for an entire year to find a new position. I was flabbergasted. Only professors with tenure or certain gov…

What’s an “office”?

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#86

What I find sad about this (and other articles like this) is when the time comes within the article to lay out how to avoid burnout and stress, the list nevver includes ways to spend less time working. It's almost like an unspoken rule. I know that to recommend that is to take a chance with your livelihood but I really hope that we can at least stop blaming ourselves for the ridiculous work/life ratio we currently mu…

As far as I can tell, media never says the bald truth that everyone knows in the back of their heads -

We live in an extremely competitive world where we must fight for our livelihoods. The majority of non-white-collar jobs are worse than whatever crap we have to put up with in the good jobs - they get treated worse, paid less, and have less prospects to escape their situation. So every high-paying becomes increasingly competitive, and you cannot realistically spend too little time working or push back too much because you will be replaced. Employers have always been tyrannical to the greatest degree they can get away with, and they will always do so. They don't care, they will squeeze everything they can out of you. Only reason some programmers have it good for now is extremely short supply, and thats quickly changing as more people rush into the field.

That entire structure makes things very convenient for the rich people at the top. As long as there are enough people stuck in dead-end situations, they can simply pay a little better and have a supply of people willing to do anything - program weapons or junk ads, work 80 hours/week whatever. Its a question of power plain & simple and its frankly ridiculous how many hoops people collectively jump through to avoid facing that fact.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#87
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself “paid by the hour” even if I’m not formally paid by the hour. I log my time and have a bank of hours that can’t go outside +/-20 hours. If I did 41 hours last week I’ll do 39 next week. I’ll never take a position where I do more than 40h on average. There is no amount of money that will be compensation enough for regular 45h weeks.

Yup, exactly. Excluding those that are very low on the income scale, for whom everyone agrees life is difficult, I simply don't understand the claims of inescapable demands on skilled white-collar workers' time. If you're making any sort of non-negligible surplus above the basics, then you're at some level making a conscious choice of that surplus (usually for consumption) over a lower-stress job. I have a friend who…

> perform worse at your current job by putting in less hours

Citation needed.

Edit: So self-evident is this equation to some people that they down vote the mere suggestion that working longer hours does not make you better at your job.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#88
I'm reminded of this great quote from "Soul of a new machine": He went away from the basement of Building 14 that day, and left this note in his cubicle, on top of his computer terminal: "I'm going to a commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a season."

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#89
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we work for the same company? It's _infuriating_ to watch the same people make the same mistakes time and time again. Where is the accountability? Where has the integrity gone? Was it all a lie? What exactly is the _point_ of this charade?

It's indeed a charade. Maybe it wasn't in the beginning, but it inevitably becomes a charade once a company reaches a certain age and size. What happens is that, once a company is reliably making money for everyone, the need to "innovate" and make things more "efficient" is dramatically reduced. At the end of the day, most people want to just show up to the office, do what they're told(what they don't actually want t…

Often these young engineers don't understand the whole context. They make poor assumptions and don't ask the right questions, and their obviously superior ideas, while well-intentioned, are not actually superior. They come across as arrogant.

The problem is that no one takes them aside to explain any of this, so they become frustrated and eventually cynical. Correctly channeled and nurtured, these engineers can do a lot of good in an organization.

That said, sometimes it is the organization itself. The key to understanding is identifying the right people to ask, and asking the right questions.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#90

I've been experiencing a type of burnout for the past 7 years that is mostly mental in nature. I get plenty of exercise and while my sleep schedule is abnormal, I still get normal amounts of sleep. Where the burnout comes in is when I get back the motivation to learn and program, and everything is going good, but then I start talking to recruiters and applying to jobs, and the farthest I get is the phone interview. I…

Phone interviews and going through "the front door" of most companies is a soul-crushing experience, in my opinion, most of the time. Don't let the reality of just how difficult going about getting a job that way can be, override your sense of confidence in yourself. I have the same feeling, often. People like you and I need to remind each other, when we feel this way, that it is just hard to go that way.

If I had some real paying work to give you I'd do it in a heartbeat. Your HN name is RandomInteger4 on HN. That says enough for me.

Let me tell you a story...

I was working for a startup over 10 years ago. We started in the back of the owner's house, a glass-enclosed greenhouse (no kidding) that got up to 90+ degrees during the summer, and housed our servers and ourselves. It was a crazy experience - the stories I could tell.

I went through a divorce, while working there, stress, burnout and eventually fell out of the place (it was a bad experience), when they sold the company for a huge amount (tens of millions), and I pretty much got nothing out of it compared to what I put in (other than a lot of experience). I learned a lot but it took a huge amount out of me.

I was depressed. I went through a long period of depression and aimlessness.

A previous boss I had worked for, as an intern, who was kind of a family friend, just told me, "come and do some stuff for me". He gave me a chance, didn't have crazy expectations for me, paid me enough to get by, and I was very lucky - I worked hard and did as much as I could, because I was grateful. It helped me get over the state I was in, and back into the workforce and groove.

It sounds to me like you just need somebody to give you that. I would do it. Can anybody on HN help?

I'm starting to believe that one of my life's goals might be to find a way to help people like you (and once me). You just need to find a space, in which to do some work, without crazy expectations, make some money, make some new connections and get things going again. Sometimes it's just finding the right person or connection to talk to, which implies some degree of social interactions.

I wish you all the best. You will make it through this. Hang in there and if you can, perhaps you will also get lucky and find that opportunity to just get back into it. I really wish for you that you will.

I hope this helps, or somebody else reads this and helps you.

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