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Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

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Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#31

I've been experiencing a type of burnout for the past 7 years that is mostly mental in nature. I get plenty of exercise and while my sleep schedule is abnormal, I still get normal amounts of sleep. Where the burnout comes in is when I get back the motivation to learn and program, and everything is going good, but then I start talking to recruiters and applying to jobs, and the farthest I get is the phone interview. I…

Try playing a longer game. Pick your favorite tech and join a local group for it, and meet every time they do. Instead of the discomfort of the phone interview, you'll need to tackle the discomfort of connecting with others -- but just realize everyone's human like you, and ultimately wants to connect just as much as you do. Learn about them, look for common ground. Let them get to know you. Don't connect with a certain person? That's expected -- keep trying.

Come up with a notable side-project next time you are inspired -- but make sure it won't take longer than 1-2wks of effort. It can be a gimmick, so long as it is somewhat notable. A trivial CRUD app, but applied to a novel/fun/interesting domain. You could even look for non-profits needing a tech solution. You want to appeal to someone hiring for a jr position, and who wants to see initiative.

Good consultants -- and even FTE career-oriented devs -- tend to have their work lined up via their network. A network is as simple as casually keeping in contact with old coworkers and then pinging them when you're looking for a new opportunity. In your case, it would just be connecting with other tech folk. Open your surface area to opportunity. This is how you end up knowing about job positions not even posted yet, and end up with inside knowledge on tech that can get you into a job much easier.

Look at 1099 contracting. It's low-risk to the employer because you're easier to drop if it doesn't work out. It pays a bit better for you, in return for that risk. If you're out and looking, you can find opportunities to contract that will never be posted to job boards, because a lead engineer just wants to bring someone on quickly. The biggest risk to people pulling 1099 contractors is that contractor ghosting on them, especially when they work remote -- make one of your big selling points be communication.

This strategy -- networking -- is one that is critical to pick up not just for landing a jr/intermediate job, but for keeping career longevity in an ageism-tinted industry.

It'll be a pain in the ass, but surely better than taking minimum-wage. I think networking-motivated individuals who are still early on the dev journey can do very well.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a 20% pay raise would let you retire several years earlier, assuming you don't spend any of the extra pay.

A 20% pay rise is 10% after taxes here and wouldn’t make a huge difference. Also, I hope and intend to work well into my 70s. For that I need to not burn out in my 40s. I’m happy with what I do. I don’t need more money or more years retired. I need a job I’m happy with, money for bills and time with my family now . I pick up kids from school every day at 4 and make them dinner at 5. All this must sound pretty foreign…

[deleted]

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a 20% pay raise would let you retire several years earlier, assuming you don't spend any of the extra pay.

A 20% pay rise is 10% after taxes here and wouldn’t make a huge difference. Also, I hope and intend to work well into my 70s. For that I need to not burn out in my 40s. I’m happy with what I do. I don’t need more money or more years retired. I need a job I’m happy with, money for bills and time with my family now . I pick up kids from school every day at 4 and make them dinner at 5. All this must sound pretty foreign…

> Also, I hope and intend to work well into my 70s. For that I need to not burn out in my 40s.

Glad I’m not the only one having this exact line of thought about my future career. If it matters I live in Eastern Europe and I’m approaching 40.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#34
Chronic stress sets you up for so many diseases, where burnout is just an early warning sign in comparison. Cancer, heart disease, stroke - you name it, chances are way higher that you get it if you are under chronic stress. Being a freelancer with 2 little kids, I‘ve had my fair share of stress (and burnout), but I‘m doing quite well nowadays. So, here‘s my personal anti-stress toolbox, from most effective to least effective:

- Stoic philosophy. Accept that you have control over nothing (only the chance to influence) and eventually that feeling that you carry the world on your shoulders will disappear.

- Stoic philosophy (just to reiterate how important it is)

- Near infrared radiation - improves mitochondrial function and releases NO (a radical caused by cell stress) from the mitochondria. There are plenty of options, i have a device from redlightman.

- CBD - I vape it regularly. It’s legal where I live, but it’s illegal in some countries and US states. It believe it had a tremendous effect on me, even increased sociability.

- Blue light blocking glasses - Staring at my laptop screen for longer periods stresses me out, and using f.lux all day improves this a lot. But using the blue blockers is something different entirely. Sometimes I put on the glasses in the early afternoon and am more focused and relaxed as a result. Sleep also got much better, sometimes I fall asleep while coding in the evening. Take care to use the really yellow/orange ones, as the only-slightly-tinged ones don’t filter heavily enough.

- Sort out family problems, ASAP. Don’t feel stuck - if you do, just do _something_, even if it’s dumb. Feeling stuck kills you. You need to feel accepted by the people you are close to. You need someone you tell your (supposedly) darkest secrets without them condemning you.

- Find a job or position where your „boss“ values you and your work. For me as a freelancer this means I only work with clients for whom the project is important, or even vital (not just a cost-factor).

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#35

I've been experiencing a type of burnout for the past 7 years that is mostly mental in nature. I get plenty of exercise and while my sleep schedule is abnormal, I still get normal amounts of sleep. Where the burnout comes in is when I get back the motivation to learn and program, and everything is going good, but then I start talking to recruiters and applying to jobs, and the farthest I get is the phone interview. I…

[deleted]

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#36
Burnout for me wasn’t about too many hours. It was more that, especially in the SF tech scene, as an employee you’re expected to drink the Koolaid and not only do your job but be 100% emotionally invested in your company too. The expectation of emotional attachment is, at least for me, what makes working in that kind of environment overwhelming, and recently decided for myself that it isn’t sustainable after 4-5 years in it.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#37
post #7

> Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread We are making employees lives miserable to reduce the need of planning for companies. Quite often management lacks the emotional maturity needed in their positions that hides normal mistakes that are part of the job, push for unrealistic schedules and sometimes even get into bulling as a way of getting what they want. 8 hours plus commute time, that has increased as ci…

Crazy idea: what if management was a licensed, regulated career, like traditional engineering, or being a nurse. Like if you have more than 5 "direct reports", you need to get a certification?

Are you suggesting that people with management training generally have happier workers?

I would be interested to know if that is actually the case.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#38
post #34

Chronic stress sets you up for so many diseases, where burnout is just an early warning sign in comparison. Cancer, heart disease, stroke - you name it, chances are way higher that you get it if you are under chronic stress. Being a freelancer with 2 little kids, I‘ve had my fair share of stress (and burnout), but I‘m doing quite well nowadays. So, here‘s my personal anti-stress toolbox, from most effective to least…

"Stoic philosophy. Accept that you have control over nothing (only the chance to influence)"

You have control over your reaction to things. And I think this is a key component of Stoicism, especially in the modern working world.

If you are acting (and reacting) true to yourself, then it is other's reactions to your actions that are failing. This goes a long way to reducing the amount of stress felt.

Thanks for the insights.

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#39

I've been experiencing a type of burnout for the past 7 years that is mostly mental in nature. I get plenty of exercise and while my sleep schedule is abnormal, I still get normal amounts of sleep. Where the burnout comes in is when I get back the motivation to learn and program, and everything is going good, but then I start talking to recruiters and applying to jobs, and the farthest I get is the phone interview. I…

Have you considered changing careers to something more fulfilling, something you're excited about and actually want to do?

Re: Burnout caused by chronic stress is widespread

#40
post #6

What I find sad about this (and other articles like this) is when the time comes within the article to lay out how to avoid burnout and stress, the list nevver includes ways to spend less time working. It's almost like an unspoken rule. I know that to recommend that is to take a chance with your livelihood but I really hope that we can at least stop blaming ourselves for the ridiculous work/life ratio we currently mu…

I consider myself “paid by the hour” even if I’m not formally paid by the hour. I log my time and have a bank of hours that can’t go outside +/-20 hours. If I did 41 hours last week I’ll do 39 next week. I’ll never take a position where I do more than 40h on average. There is no amount of money that will be compensation enough for regular 45h weeks.

Yup, exactly.

Excluding those that are very low on the income scale, for whom everyone agrees life is difficult, I simply don't understand the claims of inescapable demands on skilled white-collar workers' time. If you're making any sort of non-negligible surplus above the basics, then you're at some level making a conscious choice of that surplus (usually for consumption) over a lower-stress job.

I have a friend who's a quant at Goldman Sachs, whose work life is miserable but who makes a good 150k more than me. His labor isn't (currently) valued at more than mine: I could get a similar TC with little effort and a much _better_ working environment, but I have absolutely no interest: I'm consciously trading off compensation consumption for a better work-life balance. The flipside is that he's consciously trading off quality of life for more compensation, for whatever his personal reasons are. It's bizarre to me to claim that it's a bad thing that that choice is presented to him (or to me for that matter).

I get that this sounds like a general-purpose argument against worker protections, but there's a key difference: in the absence of a robust, UBI-like safety net, we as a society have accepted that coercion can include nominally consensual actions taken to avoid bumping up against a lack of whatever we've defined as the basic necessities that everyone is entitled to (food, shelter, etc).

But the work burnout problem is, statistically, almost entirely a middle- and upper-class problem[1], and these are precisely the people who have the comp surplus to consciously choose to trade off compensation for a better quality of life.

I know as always the dimmer readers of comments like this will pattern-match this to the victim-blaming buzzword, but you can simultaneously bemoan the state of a culture and work to improve your lot within it. In this case, there's a fairly simple, concrete solution: perform worse at your current job by putting in less hours or get a job that isn't so rigid as to require a number of hours above what you find to be your healthy level.

[1] the job-related woes of lower income people tend to involve not being able to get enough employment and thus enough income to live off of

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