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The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

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Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#31

Post by dhbanes »

boucher wrote: post #7
karzeem wrote: post #3

Most criticisms of California target public sector backwardness, so it's not a refutation of that to point to the strength of the state's private sector. And "CA's private sector is strong, ergo it hasn't been harmed by the government" is a circular argument. This is an argument over the precise extent to which bad policies are bad. Seems more useful to discuss what genuinely good policy looks like.

The argument that California's policies must be bad, regardless of the fact that they've produced the strongest private sector in the country, is equally fallacious.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it seems to me that California's private sector is strong despite its backward government, not as a result of it. California is an extremely desirable place to live. This attracts business owners and highly qualified employees alike. I would be interested to hear which of California's policies you believe play a significant role in the success of its resident businesses.

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#32

Post by [deleted] »

Semiapies wrote: post #26
j_baker wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what strikes me as funny: California's budget crunch is $25 billion. Texas (a paragon of small government) is facing a deficit of... $25 billion. The fact that both states have similar deficits would seem to back your argument that this has more to do with the economy than budgetary policy. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/st... http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-11-11/news/24826042_1_bud…

" paragon of small government" You must be thinking of a different Texas than I live in. :P Even if the $25B deficit pans out in the end, and aside from the other differences between the states (including the counter-intuitive one that Texas has been less hard-hit during this downturn), you still end up with a situation where states face major budgetary crises at every downturn because revenue only balances spending…

[deleted]

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#33

Post by brc »

Semiapies wrote: post #22

"Californians are so productive that every year they send billions of dollars in surplus dollars to the rest of America. Year after year they have sent vastly more in federal taxes than they ever get back in federal spending." So many seemingly educated Americans can't tell - or artfully avoid telling - the difference between state and federal taxation and spending. Also, here's the dirty secret: people in other stat…

I'm pretty sure the reason you hear 'skeptics' hoot every time it snows is because 'alarmists' hoot every time it gets hot. The celebration of colder weather is probably equal parts mocking sarcasm and genuine belief that cold weather means the end of global warming.

To me, it's always been a way of saying 'you can't have it both ways'. But then, I don't know what people are thinking when they say these things, so that's just my opinion showing through.

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#34

Post by [deleted] »

j_baker wrote: post #20
waterlesscloud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California %2 is agriculture. Texas is 0.8.

Really? That's actually somewhat surprising to me. Still, I don't really think of Texas as a farm state either. I'm thinking more along the lines of the Midwestern states like Kansas or Nebraska.

[deleted]

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#35

Post by motherwell »

nhebb wrote: post #19
gruseom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But California's economy is 50% larger than Texas', according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP . Since economists mostly talk about debt to GDP ratio, doesn't that make Texas considerably worse off?

Texas has a two-year budget cycle, and the $25 billion deficit figure that's been batted around the internet is speculative since the official numbers won't be known until January.

What is the margin of error? For example, if Texas debt is between 10 and 30 billion, then we can't comment. But if it is between 20 and 30, then I think we can reasonably say that Texas debt to GDP is worse.

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#36

Post by gwern »

nhebb wrote: post #19
gruseom wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But California's economy is 50% larger than Texas', according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP . Since economists mostly talk about debt to GDP ratio, doesn't that make Texas considerably worse off?

Texas has a two-year budget cycle, and the $25 billion deficit figure that's been batted around the internet is speculative since the official numbers won't be known until January.

Are there any reasons to think that the speculative number will be off by more than a billion or two? If the real deficit is actually 23 or 27 billion, I don't think that really affects the comparison too much.

('Oh, Texas's deficit is actually $24.23 billion and not $24.24 billion? Well, obviously that invalidates all the comparisons to California! Let's discuss something else.')

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#37

Post by Semiapies »

brc wrote: post #33
Semiapies wrote: post #22

"Californians are so productive that every year they send billions of dollars in surplus dollars to the rest of America. Year after year they have sent vastly more in federal taxes than they ever get back in federal spending." So many seemingly educated Americans can't tell - or artfully avoid telling - the difference between state and federal taxation and spending. Also, here's the dirty secret: people in other stat…

I'm pretty sure the reason you hear 'skeptics' hoot every time it snows is because 'alarmists' hoot every time it gets hot. The celebration of colder weather is probably equal parts mocking sarcasm and genuine belief that cold weather means the end of global warming. To me, it's always been a way of saying 'you can't have it both ways'. But then, I don't know what people are thinking when they say these things, so th…

This is perhaps true for a few; I've mocked the "every single instance of bad weather of any kind is due to global warming" folks myself.

That said, most of the "It's snowing! So much for global warming!" BS is far from a sarcastic comment on that behavior.

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#38

Post by akgerber »

j_baker wrote: post #20
waterlesscloud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California %2 is agriculture. Texas is 0.8.

Really? That's actually somewhat surprising to me. Still, I don't really think of Texas as a farm state either. I'm thinking more along the lines of the Midwestern states like Kansas or Nebraska.

Texas has two of America's six largest cities in addition to all of its agricultural land. North Dakota has a city of less than 100,000. So its hinterland is a little more important.

Re: The Truth about California: It's actually saving the rest of the USA

#40

Post by Benjo »

j_baker wrote: post #20
waterlesscloud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California %2 is agriculture. Texas is 0.8.

Really? That's actually somewhat surprising to me. Still, I don't really think of Texas as a farm state either. I'm thinking more along the lines of the Midwestern states like Kansas or Nebraska.

Keep in mind that "agriculture" includes livestock. Also, the climate of the southern US is well suited for cotton. Beyond that, corn is grown pretty much everywhere.
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