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The anti crunch hours license

github.com

101–110 of 140 posts

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it not be legally binding?

Ok let me answer that.. Which country is going to vote a LAW that writes: nobody works more than 45 hours/week? The next day healthcare will collapse. Big corporations will lobby VERY hard against that.

The Europen Union's Working Time Directive.

The limit is 48 hours, and it's calculated with some averaging over multiple days, but I hope that's close enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Time_Directive_2003

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#102
post #82
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every hospital globally. Its not great for the doctors, but if you're a patient with an acute problem its much better to have the same few doctors working keeping watch over you than a brand new doctor every 8 hours coming on board that doesn't know anything about why you're there.

There's probably a more optimal solution then either a current 8h handoff, or a zombie caring for you. However, doctoring, as profession, is a conservative one, and is highly resistant to process improvements. It took decades of effort, and decades of trivial mistakes (wrong organs removed, surgical instruments left inside patients when they are sewn up) to get the profession to even consider that maybe, maybe, check…

> There's probably a more optimal solution then either a current 8h handoff, or a zombie caring for you.

I would imagine that it would involve overlapping shifts so the handoff process can be extended over time.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you think the hospitals do long shifts then? Just for fun? Because the culture of US medical training was initiated by a coke addict, and it's extremely conservative and slow-moving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted

But medical shifts are like this the world-over.

Why do you believe that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_resident_work_hours#EU...

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#106
post #10

Before this comment section gets any more toxic, please understand the context. The org on GitHub that developed this license is called 996ICU ( https://996.icu/#/en_US ). It is a (very large) group of Chinese developers that are upset with the common practice of working 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week. Please be mindful of the fact that lots of developers around the world work under genuinely awful conditions, and that yo…

> your (x times y) work week is a privilege earned by a long history of labour activism in the Western world. You have no proof of this. The (x times y) work week for manual labourers was earned by a long history of labour activism. Good working conditions for highly-skilled in-demand work arise naturally through supply and demand.

This is easy to say. Can you give examples? I'm no expert on economic history, just a run of the mill history buff, but my impression is that the divide is not between people who are unskilled and in low demand vs. those skilled and in high demand. I would say it is between owners of capital, who are not bound to work for a salary, and everyone else. Typically if you work for a salary you're worried about and dependent on the arrival of the next payment. Regardless of how easy you think it will be to find another job the loss of the current income stream is disruptive. I just finished a book that related the very long working hours of clerks performing accounting tasks for Canton-based American merchant houses during the middle 19th century. So there you had skilled clerks, who had to be imported by sailing vessel from the other side of the pacific, and still felt compelled to work essentially dawn to dusk 6 days a week.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#107
post #9
post #6

You have no clue why someone is working more than 10 hours consecutively or more than 45 hours a week. Maybe that's something they're being paid quite well to do, and maybe they want to do so. This type of restriction just screams "I want to feel like a good person." You're within your rights to use this restriction, but it's equally as ridiculous as a restriction forcing employees not to eat toast on Tuesdays, Wedne…

Right, this is perhaps the fundamental objection to social-good software licenses: how many people who don't engage in social good do respect copyright? The GPL works because it's pretty unambiguous about what exactly your obligations are, it's pretty unambiguous when there's a violation of those obligations, and because there are entities that do care deeply about copyright (like, oh, Microsoft and Oracle and IBM) t…

> Any license of the form "You must obey laws" (like this one, "The above license is only granted to entities that act in concordance with local labor laws") is not going to get respected. Either the entity was going to obey laws, in which case it's redundant, or they weren't, in which case what do they care about copyright.

What about companies that see respecting laws as a tradeoff between having less profits and getting fined? If breaking the law implies an additional fine due to this license, it may tip the balance the other way.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#108
post #2

Ah, yet another "open-source if you follow my principles" license. It should be an uninteresting fact at this point that yes, you can in fact put whatever clauses you want in your software license. Note that this is a license restriction addon, not a standalone license. To use, ammend to and reference by another license. Note that this removes "open-source" status from the original license if it is open-source, accor…

all open source licenses are “follow my principles” licenses. We’vr just had a monoculture of software principles for the last few decades.

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But medical shifts are like this the world-over.

Why do you believe that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_resident_work_hours#EU...

That’s exactly what I mean - cf

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/nov/05/nhs-confiden...

In the UK they always worked long shifts because it’s safer. They’re trying to stop them, and it’s less safe.

Why do you think the reason the UK has always worked long hours is due to a drug addiction in the US rather than experience in safety?

Re: The anti crunch hours license

#110
post #75

As a consultant, I have a 50% rush fee. But for that, I've at times worked ~20 hours per day.

I think you technically aren't affected by that license, as you are not an employee.

I know. I'm just arguing that asking for more work is OK, if you're willing to pay for it. Many years ago, I worked a union job (chemical plant) and we got 1.5x wages for overtime, and 2x wages for working legal holidays.
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