A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
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Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#2Thanks. There was a thread on HN yesterday about the benefits of a college education. There was a subthread arguing that without going to a formal college process of study of topics such as ethics and philosophy, a person could not hope to become a moral person, and therefore, the implication goes, college is not only necessary but fundamental to a moral society, and also obviously graduates are more moral and ethical than non-graduates. This argument that morality comes exposure to higher education and is thus an imperative for civilization can perhaps be considered a modernist successor to the argument that morality comes from exposure to one or another particular religion and is thus an imperative for civilization.
Several people objected to these claims.
This study you post is a very good formal rebuttal. In the best case scenario, where the person intentionally focuses on the study of ethics in college, it has no effect on personal moral/ethical advancement.
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#3>The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
http://tao-in-you.com/lao-tzu-tao-te-ching-chapter-1/
A lot of people say that fantasy fiction has helped them learn morality. A modern form of parables?
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#4Not so fast!
Any ethicist or philosopher who claims ethical or moral superiority in day to day conversation is a bit like the Buddha you cross paths with during your lifetime.
You brutally murder him, and continue on the road to true enlightenment.
What exposure to philosophical and ethical studies does for a person is to open their eyes to the fact that, guess what? There's more than one way to look at ethics, and none of them is necessarily any more correct than any of the others (Except whatever one appeals most to the student, which may change over time).
It also equips you with a framework for beginning to articulate and come to grips with the unknown or inarticulable. It allows self-examination and can lead to fairly non-intuitive discoveries over one's lifetime.
In short, it doesn't justify being a smug arse about anything, and you could live life without it.
But honestly, where's the fun in that?
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#5>The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. http://tao-in-you.com/lao-tzu-tao-te-ching-chapter-1/ A lot of people say that fantasy fiction has helped them learn morality. A modern form of parables?
Fairy tales, urban legends, myths and stories have been used to teach morality and ethics probably since humans were capable of abstract thought and language. Fantasy fiction is just a commercialized version of the same. To me there's little difference between finding moral lessons in the Beatitudes versus the Jedi Code, which some people do.
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#6>The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. http://tao-in-you.com/lao-tzu-tao-te-ching-chapter-1/ A lot of people say that fantasy fiction has helped them learn morality. A modern form of parables?
What everyone in this discussion seems to be missing is that the number one source of moral failures is not trying. The inborn human conscience provides so much ignored guidance that trying to help it out with books is pointless. Instead, we need to be thinking about how to get people to put some effort and sacrifice into having morals. It doesn't matter if you know one ethical truth or ten billion if you are not willing to sacrifice anything.
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#7>The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. http://tao-in-you.com/lao-tzu-tao-te-ching-chapter-1/ A lot of people say that fantasy fiction has helped them learn morality. A modern form of parables?
What everyone in this discussion seems to be missing is that the number one source of moral failures is not trying. The inborn human conscience provides so much ignored guidance that trying to help it out with books is pointless. Instead, we need to be thinking about how to get people to put some effort and sacrifice into having morals. It doesn't matter if you know one ethical truth or ten billion if you are not wil…
Empathy is not inborn, it is taught. Ask anyone with a toddler. Also people must be taught to broaden their circle of empathy to include foreigners, animals, etc. The capacity may be innate but it must be shaped by education, formal or otherwise.
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
What everyone in this discussion seems to be missing is that the number one source of moral failures is not trying. The inborn human conscience provides so much ignored guidance that trying to help it out with books is pointless. Instead, we need to be thinking about how to get people to put some effort and sacrifice into having morals. It doesn't matter if you know one ethical truth or ten billion if you are not wil…
Empathy is not inborn, it is taught. Ask anyone with a toddler. Also people must be taught to broaden their circle of empathy to include foreigners, animals, etc. The capacity may be innate but it must be shaped by education, formal or otherwise.
Is it taught, or does it "grow in?" Toddlers don't get empathy training.
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
Empathy is not inborn, it is taught. Ask anyone with a toddler. Also people must be taught to broaden their circle of empathy to include foreigners, animals, etc. The capacity may be innate but it must be shaped by education, formal or otherwise.
Is it taught, or does it "grow in?" Toddlers don't get empathy training.
I can't say whether it's what makes the difference or it's a natural development, but they 100% for sure do. Both direct instruction and example behavior.
Re: A study of ethicists finds they’re no more ethical than the rest of us
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it taught, or does it "grow in?" Toddlers don't get empathy training.
I can't say whether it's what makes the difference or it's a natural development, but they 100% for sure do. Both direct instruction and example behavior.
There are many parent who never instruct their kids to care about other people, and those kids turn out fine. The vast majority of what you have to tell a todller is variants of "don't put that in your mouth," and sometimes "stop hitting your sister." I've never heard of an admonition to "be more caring." (Note: that sounds like a heartwarming idea unless you have met a toddler before)