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Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
21–30 of 56 posts
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#22"...the value Google is getting out of my work is worth many multiples of my total compensation. And that’s a position that every engineer should strive for, since that’s how you can be confident that you will remain gainfully employed." As an entrepreneur, something about this statement bothers me... something about all the value I create getting skimmed off the top and taken away by someone else. Yeah, that's proba…
But that's not really what's happening.
A skilled engineer who focuses solely on engineering will produce much better work than a skilled engineer that also has to focus on /marketing /sales /investors /accounting /facilities /IT /management /HR
Either a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond.
Edit: Also consider that you may be a person that can produce a lot of value specialized, but practically no value when juggling all the above items. You'll find that if you can produce a lot of value at any level then you can negotiate from a position of power.
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with your comment, but would like to point out that this is almost always the case. As an example, I used to work at a SaaS company, and we generated more value for our customers than we charged in fees. Well, duh, otherwise they wouldn't be our customers for long. Same goes for every lasting business model: your cut <= your value generated.
Though I suppose it depends on the definition of value, something seems somewhat wrong about this maxim, otherwise there wouldn't be abhorrent anger at certain business models. For example, Payday lenders.
The problem with loan sharks is not that others create more value for them than the borrowers necessarily keep for themselves — that could be said of all loans. The problem with loan sharks is that they prey on the weak in a way that is not just suboptimal, but outright harmful.
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#24I find this article misleading, Google certainly does not have problem retaining talents joining early stage startups. Those talents probably joined Google pre-IPO and funding their own startups now. The problem for the late Googlers is that they and their uncles all want to join the multi-billions dollar pre-IPO "company". And yes, their scale is big enough and affect millions, and the up side is, one day they can move on to be entrepreneurs.
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#25"...the value Google is getting out of my work is worth many multiples of my total compensation. And that’s a position that every engineer should strive for, since that’s how you can be confident that you will remain gainfully employed." As an entrepreneur, something about this statement bothers me... something about all the value I create getting skimmed off the top and taken away by someone else. Yeah, that's proba…
There is something important that you miss here. He's generating lots of value, sure. But it is value that can only be generated because his employer already has a lot of existing infrastructure to benefit. He couldn't as easily generate that much value on his own. And therefore being an entrepreneur isn't necessarily that attractive to him.
Life is often like that. As an entrepreneur you should seek to understand and respect people who make that choice, not look down on it. Because after all your hope is to eventually hire people who are like him. If you sneer at smart people who are happy to generate excess value, they will notice and won't want to do that for you.
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#26"...the value Google is getting out of my work is worth many multiples of my total compensation. And that’s a position that every engineer should strive for, since that’s how you can be confident that you will remain gainfully employed." As an entrepreneur, something about this statement bothers me... something about all the value I create getting skimmed off the top and taken away by someone else. Yeah, that's proba…
But that's not really what's happening. A skilled engineer who focuses solely on engineering will produce much better work than a skilled engineer that also has to focus on /marketing /sales /investors /accounting /facilities /IT /management /HR Either a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. Edit: Also consider that you may be a person that can produce a lot of value specialized, but practically no…
Note that an engineer at a startup doesn't necessarily need to focus on anything other than engineering. If your startup has 2-3 people, then sure, everyone's gotta wear multiple hats; in a startup with 10-20 people, specialization makes sense, and probably wouldn't be that different from a big company.
(One big difference, however, is that even if you're doing only engineering work, a big company will probably give you more time to think long-term; at a (competently-run) startup, you're more likely to be focused on short-term, tactical, quick-and-dirty work.)
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#27"...the value Google is getting out of my work is worth many multiples of my total compensation. And that’s a position that every engineer should strive for, since that’s how you can be confident that you will remain gainfully employed." As an entrepreneur, something about this statement bothers me... something about all the value I create getting skimmed off the top and taken away by someone else. Yeah, that's proba…
But that's not really what's happening. A skilled engineer who focuses solely on engineering will produce much better work than a skilled engineer that also has to focus on /marketing /sales /investors /accounting /facilities /IT /management /HR Either a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. Edit: Also consider that you may be a person that can produce a lot of value specialized, but practically no…
With a name like johngalt I would think you'd be supporting his argument ;)
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#28Since Theodore brought this up: "(And those stories about Google paying $3.5 million and $7 million to keep an engineer from defecting to Facebook? As far as I know, total bull. I bet it’s something made up by some Facebook recruiter who needed to explain how she let a live prospect get away. :-)"
I'm pretty sure it's real. Someone who either posts on here or who is frequently submitted -- I think piaw, or something like that? -- is an early Google ops person. Anyway, on piaw's blog, he or she mentioned that he or she had personally spoken to a G employee who got a counteroffer within 20% of the 3.5MM. So perhaps Theodore should be a little less sure of himself. Sorry for being vague, my memory is a little hazy, but I've read this in the last 2 weeks.
Also, he's doing something much closer to pure infrastructure work, so of course fewer -- but not zero -- web startups will be interested. That being said, I think it highly unlikely there are no jobs in SF / valley for highly experienced linux kernel file system devs.
Edit: link I referred to above http://piaw.blogspot.com/2010/11/counter-offer-conundrum.htm...
"People asked me yesterday if the Techcrunch $3.5M story was true. I said it was believable, because while I wasn't involved in negotiating that particular counter-offer, I had some role in assisting someone land a counter-offer within 20% of that number some time back."
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#29"...the value Google is getting out of my work is worth many multiples of my total compensation. And that’s a position that every engineer should strive for, since that’s how you can be confident that you will remain gainfully employed." As an entrepreneur, something about this statement bothers me... something about all the value I create getting skimmed off the top and taken away by someone else. Yeah, that's proba…
But that's not really what's happening. A skilled engineer who focuses solely on engineering will produce much better work than a skilled engineer that also has to focus on /marketing /sales /investors /accounting /facilities /IT /management /HR Either a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. Edit: Also consider that you may be a person that can produce a lot of value specialized, but practically no…
I'm not really arguing against these points at all.
What I mean by my comment is that, as an entrepreneur, when I detect high marginal return on a given activity, I want to find ways of extracting more value from the situation for myself (profit seeking), rather than just getting a paycheck (profit taking).
All that value getting skimmed off and given to someone else is a lost opportunity, especially when you're working for someone else, as there are rarely ways to insert yourself at a higher point in the value chain.
Re: Google has a problem retaining great engineers? Bullcrap.
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the flip side, much of the value you are able to create may come as the result of the infrastructure and colleagues provided to you by that same "someone else". Seems particularly true at a place like Google. When you work for yourself, you get to keep 100% (minus taxes) of (probably) a smaller number; whether that is best for you depends on your personality.
Even so, if you're a top performer, you end up subsidizing the paychecks of a lot of people.
Subsidizing is such a loaded word. Your comment is an example of the pie fallacy. Yes, your colleagues may get a bigger paycheck because you're a top engineer. But that doesn't necessarily imply that the additional money they get is "taken" from you.
And obviously, doing a startup is no guarantee that your returns will be better.