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I Miss Rails

chanind.github.io

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Re: I Miss Rails

#401

Post by joelbluminator »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #313
peteforde wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funniest part about the enthusiasm for React masochism is that the best parts of the library are better accomplished with a combination of Turbolinks 5 and Stimulus. Not a coincidence that they're all Rails extractions. For me, the more interesting question in all of this is where did this fervour for JS-and-the-way-down actually come from? My hypothesis is that it's the natural result of a huge mess of new talen…

What purpose does it serve to take such an uncharitable view on other people? This community is full of experienced professionals who use Javascript even in the face of alternative options, and we belabor this topic every day. So what excuse do you have for assuming and hypothesizing that everyone must be an unenlightened boot camp amateur when you could've turned to anyone and simply asked? For example, to me, moder…

why is async everything a strength? I find it an unnatural way to think about coding, just like threading. Sure if performance absolutely requires it I'll start using threading, but why do it by default? A strength, in my eyes, is simplicity. What's simpler than a code that runs sequentially?

Re: I Miss Rails

#402

Post by collyw »

ileri62 wrote: post #298
0xADEADBEE wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is the opposite of what you asked but I find Rails to be keeping pace with modernity much better than its conemporaries! Django seem to have given up on integrating websockets (ActionCable has been in Rails for literally years now), nor is there trivial integration for JS assets/asset pipeline functionality. I don't write much of either anymore, but I'd still reach for Rails the instant I need to get some…

Serious question: Django doesn't even have lazy loading. Why do people use it? Am I missing something? No way I'd wait a few seconds to get something big from the db

Yes it does, the problem seems to be that no one bothers to learn how the ORM works.

Re: I Miss Rails

#403

Post by black-tea »

I learnt to program for the Web in the late 90s. I used perl and later php. I stopped in the early 00s because I found supporting IE6 was soul destroying. Much more recently I got into it again and saw things like Rails and Django and was amazed. It was like stepping in a time machine and seeing what I always thought web development should have been. But the whole node, react etc. model is nothing like that. It's a regression as far as I can tell. It just makes everything more complicated for little benefit.

Re: I Miss Rails

#404

Post by joelbluminator »

tim333 wrote: post #386
peteforde wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that it's 2008 calling, but seriously: when did Heroku, Github and the bundler/gem ecosystem stop qualifying as accessible? Deploying an MVP Rails app with sophisticated functionality is so effective that it still qualifies as erotic. For me, the most compelling example of progress coming from the JS camp was my shallow investigation of the Expo platform for React Native. It has some genuinely sexy developer e…

I've been trying to learn some Rails and it's not that simple. People tend to say just read Hartl which is 804 pages according to Amazon. It may seem simple once you are familiar with a few dozen gems, action this, active that but there are a lot of bits to learn about.

True, any 15 year old framework will have bloat. But Rails is absolutely skinny compared to Spring, ASP and fellows. Its probably easier than a MEAN stack also.

Re: I Miss Rails

#405

Post by gambler »

wefarrell wrote: post #76
reilly3000 wrote: post #63

I really have no horse in this race, but I would like to know what the argument FOR React+Redux+GraphQL is for developing apps in 2019. Is it that we need to offer offline clients to meet user expectations? Better raw performance on the front end? Cheaper server costs or easier to deploy serverlessly? For the progressive enhancement of your resume?

Agnostic of stack, SPAs provide a clear separation of concerns. The api layer is responsible for transforming data between the client and controlling access. The client is responsible for presenting the data structures provided by the api to the user, and turning user inputs into data structures that the api can consume.

To put it generously, this is theory that rarely makes it to the real world. In reality, all SPAs I've seen had chunks of business logic re-implemented on the client side, and had web services that only made sense within the context of specific user interactions.

Moreover, no one stops you from separating concerns on the server side.

Re: I Miss Rails

#406

Post by davedx »

parthdesai wrote: post #62
BillFranklin wrote: post #6

> if the modern equivalent of Rails already exists, please let me know! You're in luck. Rails 5.2.3 was released 20 hours ago. More seriously, I feel rails is still excellent and I'm happy to work with it every day. I'd be interested to hear more about what makes rails not modern? I find it a very productive framework. EDIT: If you're talking about missing a JS equivalent of rails, do you know about Loopback? https:/…

Speaking of JS, do you guys have a suggestion for good SQL querybuilder and maybe a migration tool for Node? I prefer to do everything else by hand or use smaller libraries. Not that i don't know how to write SQL queries by hand, it's just raw SQL queries with conditions is just ugly.

I'm using sequelize with an SQL Server database, it's decent so far. I do migrations by hand with a custom __migrations table.

Re: I Miss Rails

#407

Post by m23khan »

sure, you will miss rails if you are still working on monolith development model (which is still valid in many cases) or if you want to have your Ruby developers who can also do frontend work.

These days, frontend has advanced so much that either you are a minority who is truly full stack and can do both backend and frontend work in good competence otherwise, frontend has become a separate profession altogether and for good reason -- it not only requires artistic capabilities, but it requires good amount of coding now with plethora of frameworks/modules.

Rails is a great framework no doubt but advent of React/Angular along with rise of microservice-oriented architecture has limited the footprint of rails in job market.

Re: I Miss Rails

#408

Post by danmaz74 »

BillFranklin wrote: post #6

> if the modern equivalent of Rails already exists, please let me know! You're in luck. Rails 5.2.3 was released 20 hours ago. More seriously, I feel rails is still excellent and I'm happy to work with it every day. I'd be interested to hear more about what makes rails not modern? I find it a very productive framework. EDIT: If you're talking about missing a JS equivalent of rails, do you know about Loopback? https:/…

I love Rails. I also like React. What I really miss is an easy way to connect the two - a Gem or a generator that connects models on Rails, through REST API endpoints, to a front-end state management library (Redux or MobX).

But I suppose that DHH got burned with Prototype and then CoffeeScript and wouldn't endorse something like this.

Re: I Miss Rails

#409

Post by m23khan »

vbsteven wrote: post #307
jrs95 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with Kotlin is also it's biggest strength: excellent interop with Java. This means that you can use all of the Java libraries...but that also makes writing new libraries in idiomatic Kotlin unnecessary, so you're going to get less of them, and have to use a lot of crummy old Java APIs.

Try Kotlin with the Spring Boot framework. I view Spring Boot as the Rails of the Java world and the Spring team has done a lot of work lately on Kotlin compatibility and idiomatic APIs. This week I’ve been porting one of my Spring Boot apps to Kotlin and that was a great experience. The only thing I’m waiting for is good reactive drivers for Postgres and then you can go with their new reactor based apis instead of t…

+1 - Kotlin/Java with Spring is a totally different beast as compared to java apps of yester years.

Re: I Miss Rails

#410

Post by _pgmf »

gambler wrote: post #398
davidbanham wrote: post #132

I actually have gone back to writing server-rendered apps like it's 2012 and it's been wonderful. Server-rendered used to mean slow and clunky but I've found that using Go my page loads are super fast. The inter-page transitions can sting a little on really really slow connections, it's true. But users are much more willing to deal with them if they haven't first been subjected to a minutes-long spinner while the SPA…

>Server-rendered used to mean slow and clunky I don't get why everyone keeps saying this. Is it because of WordPress? In 2005 I used my own MVC framework with ORM and stuff. It was written in PHP. My pages had the usual generation time of 0.03 seconds. And that was with no specialized caching or any crazy optimizations. Even with no AJAX, page loading seemed instant, unless you connected to the server from across the…

I completely agree. In 2008 at my first coding job we used plain php/MySQL with no caching and the sites were responsive. Plus they required like zero maintenance! In 2009 I went to work for a Django shop and was introduced to caching, reverse proxies/wsgi servers, templating, etc. It took a long time to buy in to this way of doing things, as it seemed intentionally complicated for no reason. Over time I've learned to appreciate that there are real benefits, but it wasn't immediately obvious to me. Regarding js templating, spa's, and all that stuff: I've tried to keep my previous experience in mind, and be open-minded about the potential benefits of these technologies. But I haven't seen any as yet.
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