Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 202 posts

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#171

Post by modi15 »

victor106 wrote: post #156
awaaz wrote: post #61

This article is really informative, and makes me feel proud to be an Indian. Medical care really is one of those things that no person should have to beg or borrow for, in a civil society. We're still not there yet as a country, but the signs are positive. FWIW, I'm relatively well off and have medical insurance, but the cost is absolutely negligible compared to what I hear is prevalent in the US - about $10 / month.…

I lived in India for about 5 years and worked in the healthcare space with all the hospitals you mention. So here's my take:- India has amazing "private" hospitals if you compare the doctors and the equipment they use. India also has the worst "private" hospitals if you compare the hospital support staff specially nurses. Most of them (not all) nurses have no passion and the profession itself is not given the kind of…

> Also, the public hospitals in India are a joke. They are terrible. Although some of the best doctors in India come from there.

How can they be terrible and have the best doctors at the same time ?

> Cleanliness is another major issue in Indian hospitals. Even in the best ones most staff don't follow basic sterilization procedures that are common in the western world.

You mentioned before that some private hospitals are amazing, yet here you mention that cleanliness is an issue in indian hospitals. How can they be amazing if cleanliness is an issue ?

> So all in all its great that the hospitals in India are affordable to a cross section of Indians but they can be better with better government oversight and having well trained and passionate nursing staff which might increase costs.

Are you saying that all the nurses in the US come all 'passionate' ?

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#173

Post by omegaworks »

kbutler wrote: post #153
omegaworks wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew I'd get this kneejerk reaction to "simply create and allocate the currency," I was holding out hope that responders would finish reading the sentence. What I said was: >a nation-state... can create and allocate the currency to serve this purpose. I totally agree with you in a general sense. Creating and allocating currency and distributing it to the general population equally will cause the scenario you descri…

The point is that inflating the money supply is a tax, just a hidden one spread across all holders of assets denominated in that currency (cash, loans, salaries, ...) Smaller amounts of "print and spend" inflate less than large amounts, but they do cause inflation, and the wish list is never just healthcare. Controlling a fiat currency lets you hide some taxation as inflation, but it is no free lunch.

It is no free lunch, but I never claimed it was. It is an option on the table, not one without consequences.

It’s never just healthcare, sure: move the goalposts and set up your slippery slope.

But consider this: what if the tax produced value over the cost of its implementation? What if it prevented harder, more expensive downline complications or made the population more productive—more likely to gain, retain and apply their education?

What if we looked to it as an investment in our people?

Why is it then not justifiable?

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#174

Post by dredmorbius »

notyourday wrote: post #131
dredmorbius wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most medical expense is care of chronic conditions and end-of-life care. Not elective procedures. https://www.qualityhealth.com/health-lifestyle-articles/10-m...

So if it is chronic there's even more reason to ensure that one does not overpay for what one would be consuming all the time?

It's both the duration and increasing severity that account for much of the cost, along with the systematic cost-inflating aspects of the US healthcare system.

Individual actions play little role.

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#175

Post by [deleted] »

anonymous_i wrote: post #166
rushabh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experiences in India will vary dramatically based on which state you live in. If you are rural Kerla, a state with 50M people in South India, you are likely to get some of the best quality healthcare are very affordable rates. It’s hard to generalise anything about India which is incredibly huge and diverse.

Kerala is but one state out of many. Kerala is probably the only state in India with a public safety net. How many states names can you pull to exemplify your argument besides Kerala?

[deleted]

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#176

Post by govg »

hetoh wrote: post #165
victor106 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in India for about 5 years and worked in the healthcare space with all the hospitals you mention. So here's my take:- India has amazing "private" hospitals if you compare the doctors and the equipment they use. India also has the worst "private" hospitals if you compare the hospital support staff specially nurses. Most of them (not all) nurses have no passion and the profession itself is not given the kind of…

Even some "public" hospitals are really good. e.g. Tata hospital in Mumbai, They have had equipments and cancer treatments, which are even considered state of art in US. Like DOTATATE scan and lutetium therapy has been available to so many people in India for more than 5+ years now. Only 2 hospitals in Mumbai have it Jaslok and TATA. And TATA charges are so low , its a blessing for all the people who have been able t…

For those like me who were confused : The Tata hospital was originally commissioned by a philanthropic trust established by one of the Tata's, arguably one of India's most famous business families, and also possibly the most active in philanthropy / social welfare. The Tatas are also responsible for some of India's best research institutes - TIFR / IISc, as well as places like TISS, NCPA.

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#177

Post by aitchnyu »

noelsusman wrote: post #109

>Narayana has been able to get the retail cost of a heart bypass, its most common operation, down to $2,000, about 98 percent less than the U.S. average. I'd like to see where they got these numbers. The average Medicare payment for DRG 236 (Coronary Bypass without Cardiac Catheter and without MCC) is $23,500. Something doesn't add up here. After adjusting for wage differences I'd imagine the numbers are much closer…

There are non-assembly line private hospitals which cost 4x. Narayana doens't have AC rooms (OTOH) and otherwise cuts cost:

> right from design and construction, Narayana Hrudayalaya has sought new ways to cut costs. It has kept the design compact, reduced empty spaces and used prefabricated structures. Also, instead of marbles and expensive furniture, the hospital has used simple tiles and low-cost seating, reducing the cost per bed to Rs 12-18 lakh, compared with Rs 60-80 lakh at other corporate hospitals.

economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/17768149.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#178

Post by mikekchar »

helloindia wrote: post #162
victor106 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in India for about 5 years and worked in the healthcare space with all the hospitals you mention. So here's my take:- India has amazing "private" hospitals if you compare the doctors and the equipment they use. India also has the worst "private" hospitals if you compare the hospital support staff specially nurses. Most of them (not all) nurses have no passion and the profession itself is not given the kind of…

"India also has the worst "private" hospitals if you compare the hospital support staff specially nurses. Most of them (not all) nurses have no passion and the profession itself is not given the kind of importance that it is given in the US." This is because Nurses don't get paid well, avg pay will be around Rs 15,000/month which is simply not enough in metro cities. Majority of the profits of private hospitals goes…

I always think that even nurses that are relatively well paid are really underpaid for the job that they do. It is a highly stressful job doing a lot of really unpleasant things under difficult conditions. You have no real leeway for having a bad day -- people suffer if you don't perform. It requires a lot of study, experience and skill to do well. While computer programming is a scarce skill, in no way does it compare with the job of a nurse... and still there is no comparison in salary. And that's for nurses that are relatively well paid. The world really is unfair.

Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper

#180

Post by mikekchar »

notyourday wrote: post #132
anigbrowl wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not agree that most visitors to the ER do so for non-urgent reasons, although few complaints are so severe. I don't think you've fully grasped the point people are trying to communicate to you here.

I believe I understood it quite well. It just does not match either my experience or what I read. There are lot of articles on the topic. Here's a random one: https://www.wmpllc.org/ojs-2.4.2/index.php/ajdm/article/view... Green triage means that there were no reason for the patient to be in the ER. With the over-triage, green is still over 70%. So lets presume that between red and yellows it is actually 30% and none…

Not to be argumentative, but the stats may not be as descriptive as it might seem. I've seen kids in ER because they put popcorn in their ear and you can definitely say that they should be at the doctor's office. On the other hand, one day in the middle of the night my blood pressure spiked to 230. My heart was racing. I had no idea what was going on. I phoned the hospital and they suggested going to the ER. I did. They took an EKG and everything was normal. Diagnosis: panic attack (which I think was brought on by my previous blood pressure medicine). Doctor gave me a sedative and told me to go see my doctor the next day. I'd be in that green triage, but you don't know until after you are triaged. That's the problem.

Ironically, the next time it happened, I waited all night then went to the doctor. He sent me to the ER, who sent me right back home again. Another time, I had a friend who I suspected might be falling into a psychotic episode. They were acting a bit strange and it worried me. I got them to the ER and boy am I glad that we went. Probably saved a call to the police.

It's these kinds of things where you just don't know that are the most worrying and now that I have some experience with it, I have a much better idea of why some people park in the ER. If you've never experienced, then I am incredibly happy for you because it really sucks.

Of course I don't know that this is where a lot of these cases come from, but in my limited experience this is what I've seen. I think we need some other kind of place you can go that can triage effectively when you are worried and don't know what to do. When I was younger, I got sent to the ER because I had obviously broken my hand. That's a waste of resources. There are better places I could have gone, but if you don't know, then you don't know.

Post reply on HN