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Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

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Re: Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

#51

Post by crux_ »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #45
crux_ wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They chose the headline; I did not -- and it seems pretty clear from more than just the headline that the AdGrok folks value anti-PC posturing quite highly. If it were me choosing the headline, and I had a desire to reference Shackleton's journey, what's wrong with "Wanted for hazardous journey: [...]"?

First, point to anything else in that blog post that indicates any kind of "anti-PC posturing". Specifically anything that reveals any kind of gender bias. I'm guessing that you can't without revealing some gender biases of your own, but try me. Second, there's a difference between "anti-PC" and anti-equality. For example, I can say "fuck political correctness" because I think running around mincing your words in a (…

> # Tell jokes that would make sailors blush

Not specific gender bias, but we can both agree it's likely.

> For example, I can say "fuck political correctness"

Sure you can, just like every other startup/developer type has said ten thousand times -- hell, you aren't even the first in this thread.

Isn't there room for a more nuanced view?

Re: Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

#52

Post by axod »

crux_ wrote: post #35
yalurker wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't see why being too sensitive is seen as somehow worse in the startup/developer community than being too insensitive." I'll venture a guess: because many of us find it incredibly tiring and annoying to have to constantly stop and think "is there any possible way the following sentence could be interpreted as prejudiced against any group?" when communicating. If person A says something non-sexual and person B f…

Do you really think the developer world, particularly within startups, doesn't have a serious problem with sexism?

No. It absolutely does not IMHO.

Our work just isn't appealing to most women.

Re: Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

#54

Post by JabavuAdams »

yalurker wrote: post #30
crux_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, call me too sensitive then: it is sexist. If they need to explicitly mention that "women are welcome" in a footnote, that pretty much confirms that their choice of headline is saying that women are somewhat less than welcome. I don't see why being too sensitive is seen as somehow worse in the startup/developer community than being too insensitive. You'd think it would be smarter to err in the other direction...

"I don't see why being too sensitive is seen as somehow worse in the startup/developer community than being too insensitive." I'll venture a guess: because many of us find it incredibly tiring and annoying to have to constantly stop and think "is there any possible way the following sentence could be interpreted as prejudiced against any group?" when communicating. If person A says something non-sexual and person B f…

I understand your sentiment, but who gets to decide what is legitimate discrimination, and what is not? Surely, it should be a compromise.

Let's take discrimination out of the picture, and look at a less contentious example.

In a relationship, how often does saying "you're overreacting, just calm down" get someone to calm down? The alternative is to, perhaps, listen to the complaint, rather than dismissing it immediately.

Finally, let me point out that there's an interesting systems thing going on here. Imagine you're raised / cultured in a system that is stacked in your favour. Would you notice it, or would you just notice that there are these annoying people who keep complaining about nothing?

Re: Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

#55

Post by axod »

ericd wrote: post #31

I think the people getting caught up with the sensitivity of what is a pretty beautifully relevant reference wouldn't be a very good personality fit for working at AdGrok anyway. So it's a doubly good title - it's a great metaphor for a startup, and it performs the same filtering function that the original ad did. Brilliant.

I think the people getting caught up with the sensitivity... wouldn't be a great fit for being allowed on the internet.

I guess we can all see now why most job postings have comments disabled.

Re: Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

#56

Post by stonemetal »

carols10cents wrote: post #53

Let's say, for the sake of devil's advocacy, the historical quote was "Women wanted for hazardous journey". If the ad had used that as its headline, would you males feel encouraged to apply?

It depends, in this alternate history has women been used as a common word to mean person of either sex? If it has, like man has in this history, then I would not be discouraged.

Re: Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

#57

Post by crux_ »

axod wrote: post #52
crux_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think the developer world, particularly within startups, doesn't have a serious problem with sexism?

No. It absolutely does not IMHO. Our work just isn't appealing to most women.

Our work, or our culture?

I'm going to say it's the latter, given that these aspects of it aren't appealing to me either.

Re: Men wanted for hazardous journey: AdGrok (YC S10) is hiring.

#60

Post by crux_ »

Alex3917 wrote: post #40
crux_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think the developer world, particularly within startups, doesn't have a serious problem with sexism?

While there are a number of telling studies and statistics relating to gender issues, I think there is enough missing information that it isn't really possible to say much of anything intelligent on the subject. Given that we literally can't even tell the difference between a mental illness and a physical illness much of the time, I don't think science is ready to put a number on the percentage of the entrepreneurshi…

Statistics and studies will tell you information about the source of a gender gap.

However, things like:

* porn passed around chatrooms

* rape jokes around the water cooler

* comments on women's attractiveness every time one leaves the room, or every time a photo is posted online.

* etc

don't really need statistics, do they?

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