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No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

reuters.com

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Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#11

Post by ReptileMan »

nxc18 wrote: post #5

Boeing's actions are absolutely mind boggling. All consumers want is _some_, _any_ evidence that they take passenger safety seriously. Pilots have to take less training to operate a proven deadly aircraft, with software patch on top, than I have to take to work in an office job... that's fucking insane. How can we make Boeing feel some pain for this? You know, actually enough for them to start taking this seriously.

Nothing mind boggling. Boeing are trying desperately to avoid new type rating. That would leave them in the same business position where they were before developing MAX and with a bad image to boot.

Not saying they are right, but they just don't have many good moves.

Doing the Right thing leaves them years behind. It will also limit airline expansion. Airbus cannot pick up slack and there are no other players in the market.

It is a clusterfuck but like it or not 737 MAX is too big to fall(pun intended) .

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#12

Post by gotocake »

ReptileMan wrote: post #11
nxc18 wrote: post #5

Boeing's actions are absolutely mind boggling. All consumers want is _some_, _any_ evidence that they take passenger safety seriously. Pilots have to take less training to operate a proven deadly aircraft, with software patch on top, than I have to take to work in an office job... that's fucking insane. How can we make Boeing feel some pain for this? You know, actually enough for them to start taking this seriously.

Nothing mind boggling. Boeing are trying desperately to avoid new type rating. That would leave them in the same business position where they were before developing MAX and with a bad image to boot. Not saying they are right, but they just don't have many good moves. Doing the Right thing leaves them years behind. It will also limit airline expansion. Airbus cannot pick up slack and there are no other players in the…

Except it has failed, twice. It’s not as though shoving it back out the door and crossing fingers isn’t potentially going to lead to more tragedy and an even worse image, plus the potential for ruinous lawsuits. Boeing is in a terrible position they created and the only way out will hurt them, but less than staying the course.

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#13

Post by ulfw »

nxc18 wrote: post #5

Boeing's actions are absolutely mind boggling. All consumers want is _some_, _any_ evidence that they take passenger safety seriously. Pilots have to take less training to operate a proven deadly aircraft, with software patch on top, than I have to take to work in an office job... that's fucking insane. How can we make Boeing feel some pain for this? You know, actually enough for them to start taking this seriously.

I wholeheartedly agree and am going out of my way to not fly 737max and 787 (those aren’t any better. Their batteries still burn up, just now in a “metal container”. Just google ‘787 smoke’ and you’ll get tons of incidences, the last one was two days ago. And those planes fly over-water for thousands of miles - https://simpleflying.com/united-787-noumea-diversion/).

A once-proud engineering company that has become nothing more than a money-grabbing machinery it seems.

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#14

Post by Waterluvian »

Do the non-American regulatory bodies have the power to effectively override anything the FAA decides is okay by simply saying, "these X remedies are also mandatory or the 737 MAX is banned from Canadian/EU/Chinese/etc. Airspace"?

I imagine that effectively cripples the value of using the plane without those remedies.

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#16

Post by WrtCdEvrydy »

Declanomous wrote: post #8

I'd highly recommend anyone who wants to see what an MCAS runaway looks like and the steps needed to correct it watch the following video by Mentour Pilot.[1] He's a 737 pilot for a European budget carrier, and I believe he is qualified to certify other pilots. In the video he goes over what an MCAS failure/runaway stabilizer would feel like to the pilots, the troubleshooting steps, and at the end of the video he sho…

> he shows a simulated runaway MCAS failure

'I am not doing that...' is now on my most terrifying phrases to hear.

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#17

Post by cmurf »

Waterluvian wrote: post #14

Do the non-American regulatory bodies have the power to effectively override anything the FAA decides is okay by simply saying, "these X remedies are also mandatory or the 737 MAX is banned from Canadian/EU/Chinese/etc. Airspace"? I imagine that effectively cripples the value of using the plane without those remedies.

Each country sets its own rules for their airspace, so they can do whatever they want. But most have historically deferred to the FAA, but then also Boeing and airlines, and all the regulatory bodies work with ICAO to try and be on the same page as much as possible.

There may in fact be some obscure treaties and trade deals, among ICAO complexities, that complicate sovereignty on this issue.

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#18

Post by ams6110 »

nxc18 wrote: post #5

Boeing's actions are absolutely mind boggling. All consumers want is _some_, _any_ evidence that they take passenger safety seriously. Pilots have to take less training to operate a proven deadly aircraft, with software patch on top, than I have to take to work in an office job... that's fucking insane. How can we make Boeing feel some pain for this? You know, actually enough for them to start taking this seriously.

I'm going to let the pilots decide whether it's reasonable. I don't know anything about flying a 737 and I'd wager that 99% of the people posting here don't either.

If the US pilots unions are okay with it, I'll be okay with it. They haven't crashed any 737 Max yet.

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#19

Post by volkl48 »

ams6110 wrote: post #18
nxc18 wrote: post #5

Boeing's actions are absolutely mind boggling. All consumers want is _some_, _any_ evidence that they take passenger safety seriously. Pilots have to take less training to operate a proven deadly aircraft, with software patch on top, than I have to take to work in an office job... that's fucking insane. How can we make Boeing feel some pain for this? You know, actually enough for them to start taking this seriously.

I'm going to let the pilots decide whether it's reasonable. I don't know anything about flying a 737 and I'd wager that 99% of the people posting here don't either. If the US pilots unions are okay with it, I'll be okay with it. They haven't crashed any 737 Max yet.

The US airlines all purchased some/all of the "optional" safety features that would have made it obvious to the pilots that the system was malfunctioning.

Re: No call for simulators in new Boeing 737 Max training proposals

#20

Post by kbos87 »

ulfw wrote: post #13
nxc18 wrote: post #5

Boeing's actions are absolutely mind boggling. All consumers want is _some_, _any_ evidence that they take passenger safety seriously. Pilots have to take less training to operate a proven deadly aircraft, with software patch on top, than I have to take to work in an office job... that's fucking insane. How can we make Boeing feel some pain for this? You know, actually enough for them to start taking this seriously.

I wholeheartedly agree and am going out of my way to not fly 737max and 787 (those aren’t any better. Their batteries still burn up, just now in a “metal container”. Just google ‘787 smoke’ and you’ll get tons of incidences, the last one was two days ago. And those planes fly over-water for thousands of miles - https://simpleflying.com/united-787-noumea-diversion/ ). A once-proud engineering company that has become n…

Bingo. This is the end state of capitalism, a total lack of concern for brand on the part of the companies; a total lack of loyalty and trust on the part of the customer.
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