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How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

bbc.com

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Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#11

Post by sago »

It seems rather intuitive to me.

Our brain is composed of neurons. Different subsets seem to have more or less specialised functions. Any subset can be seen as it own 'thinker'. We think of them as larger units based mostly on the amount of communication / how independently they can function.

Sometimes it is helpful to think of our mind as been made of many smaller 'thinkers'. Though there is no crisp boundary, every neuron is its own individual, at one extreme.

And I think it is sensible to speak of groupthink as a mind, with thinkers contributed by lots of people. So at the other extreme all is one super mind.

I think it can be useful to think of 'god' that way (as in the will of god, the desires of god, the thoughts of god), as much as a corporation, a culture, a nation. Though I admit you have to take care not to get carried away with the implications and end up mired in sloppy reasoning.

It is also not surprising that, because axon connections are many orders of magnitude more efficient than language, the most useful grouping is at the level of an individual.

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#12

Post by corysama »

Waterluvian wrote: post #8
corysama wrote: post #2

Common human behavior is a lot more schizophrenic than any of us are comfortable with understanding. I recommend the book "Hare Brain Tortoise Mind" to everyone who will listen. It explains one form of multi-mindedness that leads to you getting your best insights while in the shower --what it's good at and what it's not. "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat" is another classic.

I'll check out those titles, but put simply, are you referring to how I talk to myself in many voices in the shower, having a narrative about a problem I'm picking away at?

TLDR of HBTM is that there is a nonverbal, background thread of consciousness in your mind. It has the advantage of a larger working set (short term memory) compared to the verbal, foreground thread. Therefore it can more easily integrate more complicated observations over time than your foreground thought process.

It has the disadvantage that it is non-verbal and does not work quickly, on command or under pressure. You need to give it time to work and you need a quiet, non-focused environment for it to bubble up it's conclusions. Basically, you need to study as much as you can, then go for quiet walks where you relax and don't think about the problem.

It also has the disadvantage that, because your foreground process did not do the work to understand the problem (it just got a cliff notes answer), if the problem changes, your foreground process won't be in a good position to re-integrate the knowledge it didn't work through in order to deal with the changed problem.

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#13

Post by nwatson »

The video doesn't portray the left-vs-right correctly. As the person and screens are set up in the video, the left and right eye both experience the left and right images presented on either side of the point-of-fixation. However, the video portrays all information from left eye going to right brain, and all information from right eye going to the left brain ... that's not how it happens ...

... rather, the left-hemi-visual-field from both left- and right-eyes goes to the right brain, and the right-hemi-visual-field from both eyes goes to the left brain, as depicted in [1].

[1] http://fourier.eng.hmc.edu/e180/lectures/eye/node4.html

EDIT: grammar

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#14

Post by Simon_says »

sago wrote: post #11

It seems rather intuitive to me. Our brain is composed of neurons. Different subsets seem to have more or less specialised functions. Any subset can be seen as it own 'thinker'. We think of them as larger units based mostly on the amount of communication / how independently they can function. Sometimes it is helpful to think of our mind as been made of many smaller 'thinkers'. Though there is no crisp boundary, every…

> I think it can be useful to think of 'god' that way (as in the will of god, the desires of god, the thoughts of god), as much as a corporation, a culture, a nation.

That does not sound useful in the slightest.

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#15

Post by newnewpdro »

I suspect we have a variable number of supplemental threads of execution serving the primary one we live on.

Recalling distant memories asynchronously after struggling to remember anything about it sometimes feels very much like another person interrupting and delivering the information once it's found.

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#16

Post by sago »

Simon_says wrote: post #14
sago wrote: post #11

It seems rather intuitive to me. Our brain is composed of neurons. Different subsets seem to have more or less specialised functions. Any subset can be seen as it own 'thinker'. We think of them as larger units based mostly on the amount of communication / how independently they can function. Sometimes it is helpful to think of our mind as been made of many smaller 'thinkers'. Though there is no crisp boundary, every…

> I think it can be useful to think of 'god' that way (as in the will of god, the desires of god, the thoughts of god), as much as a corporation, a culture, a nation. That does not sound useful in the slightest.

Do you mean 'god' as a synonym of theistic-religion groupthink? The idea of religious groupthink? Or the idea of groupthink in any context?

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#17

Post by Waterluvian »

corysama wrote: post #12
Waterluvian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll check out those titles, but put simply, are you referring to how I talk to myself in many voices in the shower, having a narrative about a problem I'm picking away at?

TLDR of HBTM is that there is a nonverbal, background thread of consciousness in your mind. It has the advantage of a larger working set (short term memory) compared to the verbal, foreground thread. Therefore it can more easily integrate more complicated observations over time than your foreground thought process. It has the disadvantage that it is non-verbal and does not work quickly, on command or under pressure.…

Fascinating. Thank you.

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#18

Post by war1025 »

corysama wrote: post #12
Waterluvian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll check out those titles, but put simply, are you referring to how I talk to myself in many voices in the shower, having a narrative about a problem I'm picking away at?

TLDR of HBTM is that there is a nonverbal, background thread of consciousness in your mind. It has the advantage of a larger working set (short term memory) compared to the verbal, foreground thread. Therefore it can more easily integrate more complicated observations over time than your foreground thought process. It has the disadvantage that it is non-verbal and does not work quickly, on command or under pressure.…

Hmmm. That pretty well explains how I've solved problems my whole life. Interesting. Will have to look into the book.

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#19

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

devoply wrote: post #10
corysama wrote: post #2

Common human behavior is a lot more schizophrenic than any of us are comfortable with understanding. I recommend the book "Hare Brain Tortoise Mind" to everyone who will listen. It explains one form of multi-mindedness that leads to you getting your best insights while in the shower --what it's good at and what it's not. "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat" is another classic.

schizophrenia in japan is called integration disorder. meaning the many different parts of the mind, or many minds, are not integrating into a single mind.

Reminds me of something from a really great piece about schizophrenia that I read:

> In 2007, they announced a startling discovery. Stevens was trying to identify the proteins that recognized and eliminated neuronal synapses during visual development. “The strangest finding was that a protein that usually tags and removes pieces of dead cells, bacterial remnants, or cellular debris was also being reworked to tag and remove the synapses,” she said. Mice designed to lack tagging proteins—called complement proteins—had problems both in clearing cellular debris and in tagging and pruning their synapses.

> The Stevens and Barres study, published in the journal Cell in 2007, documented one of the most arresting instances of repurposing in biology: a protein designed to ticket germs and junk for destruction had been co-opted by the nervous system to ticket synapses for destruction. “It reinforces an old intuition,” my psychiatrist friend Hans, in Boston, told me. “The secret of learning is the systematic elimination of excess. We grow, mostly, by dying.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/28/the-genetics-o...

Re: How researchers discovered we have “two brains” [video]

#20

Post by xtagon »

nwatson wrote: post #13

The video doesn't portray the left-vs-right correctly. As the person and screens are set up in the video, the left and right eye both experience the left and right images presented on either side of the point-of-fixation. However, the video portrays all information from left eye going to right brain, and all information from right eye going to the left brain ... that's not how it happens ... ... rather, the left-hemi…

So it works the same whether you have one or both eyes open? That's intriguing
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